Using Mass Submition Software?

Okay, we all know that we should avoid becoming enemines of the big search engines by not using automated sumition tools.

We also know that we should become friends of them by not submitting at all, but letting them find us.

However, what about for the "thousands" of unknown search engines? I realize they offer little value in driving traffic to our sites directly, but I'm thinking that being listed in some of them could only help our Google popularity.

Therefore, if there's a mass search engine submission tool that allows us to deselect the "big boys" what's the harm in using it, other than the spam we'll get, which is easy enough to get around with a temporary address?

what about for the "thousands" of unknown search engines

Thousands? There are thousands websites out there, but I don't think there's anywhere near that number of actual search engines out there. My definition of a search engine is a website that has an actual crawler that crawls the web.

99.99 precent of what those submission programs are calling "search engines" are not search engines. They're just websites that have a place where you can list your URL.

The problem is that there are still many people using these automated submission tools. And when you post your URL to using an automated software program you're giving out your email address and putting your link on someone else's site along with thousands of other people's sites that are doing the same exact thing. Most of the time it's just a "link farm" type of list of URLs where there's sometimes thousands upon thousands of outgoing links on the same site. And that site doesn't have many incoming links--just outgoing links. So, your link essentially doesn't count at all towards your search engine rankings if it even found by a search engine spider (most links like this will just fall off of the list and there won't be any chance for your URL to be crawled).

The next question is about traffic. How many real people, like you and me, know about these thousands of search engines? I personally know of about a dozen that "might" bring you some real visitors on a regular basis. And how many real visitors actually browse link lists of thousands of links to websites?

Back in 1996-1998, submitting your URL to sites might have brought you some links and traffic. Nowdays, it just doesn't work. It's more effective in getting you on spam email lists, though.

Thanks for the reply, bhartzer. I'm not trying to argue here. Just trying to look at things from a different angle, in hopes of reaching a conslusion.

First, I agree that there aren't thousands of real search engines out there. Hence the quotes around "thousands".

Second, getting spammed is a non-factor, IMO. Anyone who submits using a real, permanent address is nuts. Set up a temp address, do your submissions, check the box for a week, delete the box. Problem solved.

Now onto the important stuff: Does it help?

I agree that you're not going to get any qualified direct traffic from these sites you list on. In that sense, it's a complete waste of time (and money). However, the goal here isn't to get traffic from those sites. The goal is to hope that 5 or 10 out of the "thousands" might have descent Google PR, thus increasing yours by having links from them.

I came up with the idea by doing a little research on a site that competes with one of mine. Mine is optimized 10 times better, yet theirs has far superior Google PR. I searched for links to their site, and found nothing but (what appear to me to be) incomming links from a bunch of these "worthless" directories.

I'm not in a super competitive category, so 5-10 links from sites with PR of 5+ could send my site skyrocketing to the top. Maybe it might be more helpful for the obscure search terms I'm after than somebody targeting "refinancing", "free porn", "search engine optimization", etc. Then again, maybe not. Just brainstorming here.

Now onto the important stuff: Does it help?

No. It doesn't help one bit. It's just a waste of time. It's even more a waste of time now that the rel=nofollow tag exists.

I honestly wouldn't even waste your time with it. There are other ways to get legitimate links.

As far as your competitor goes, I wouldn't worry too much about it, those links will be discounted/gone soon enough.

Thanks for your opinion. I'm not familiar with the rel=nofollow tag. Any chance you can point me to a source where I can learn more about it?

Here's a good article that explains it all:
[link]

This is the first time I've heard not to use auto submission software. For one of my clients, I use Web Position Gold to submit. Should I not be doing that? Should I just submit to DMOZ and nothing else?
Thanks,
Mike

Web Position Gold submits? I thought it was just an optimization and tracking utility.

I use a submission software but it allows me to pick and choose which sites I want to submit to in what it calls semi-automatically. This has given me the freedom to tailor the information I give out for my sites to different accounts and the forms get filled out for me by the system but I'm the one who makes the end decision of whether or not to submit. For me it is just a time saver.

Personally, I wouldn't use any software to submit to the engines/directories you consider really important (like Google). I don't have proof, but it simply HAS TO leave footprints. I'm sure Google knows you're using software, rather than visiting their site.

I knew feel Web Position's submitter is safe, because of the following, which I have copied and pasted from the help file. However, maybe I should reconsider?

WebPosition Gold's submitter is a much more "intelligent" tool and provides a greater degree of usefulness beyond "blasting a site's address to hundreds of search engines nobody has ever heard of." Instead, WebPosition Gold's submitter focuses on quality, integrity and safety. It even warns users not to submit too many pages to any one index to discourage users from "spamming" and to avoid breaking subtle "limits" each search engine employs.

· WebPosition employs technology, which allows you to submit URLs to search engines without being flagged into a low priority queue -- some engines do this to pages they determine originated from automated submission services or mass submitting tools. WebPosition's submissions look like submissions coming from any standard browser.
· WebPosition submits only to the most important search engines. Do not be fooled by submission programs that claim submission to 100's or 1000's of sites. Ninety-five percent of your traffic will come from the top 15 to 20 sites. Most of the remaining engines nobody has ever heard of or use. Most of the sites these programs submit to are not search engines at all, but simply "FFA" services setup to gather e-mail addresses from those submitting in order to send them spam mail. The key to gaining traffic to your Web site is in your ability to gain top 10 rankings on the major search engines and directories. That's what WebPosition does better than any other product.

Personally, I think they grossly overestimate the number of "important" search engines.

In my opinion, I'd say hand submit to any engine you had heard of before you started playing the SEO game. If nothing else, at least hand submit to Google. It takes 2 seconds and isn't worth the risk.

Sounds good. i'll make sure I do that from now on. Thanks, Mike

Sure thing, George.