Hey, can any one tell me whats the best, or a recomendations for a CMS or a Blog that is great with the Engines?

I am looking for a good CMS or Blog for SEO, it can be as it is or it can be say Mambo with a particular Module, or it can be word press with a wp mpmodule?

I really dont know what one to use. WP would suite me if it was a good with the Engines but i really dont know...

I use Bblog and Communityserver.org - no idea how CS.org will perform as we're just now going live with it.

No issues so far with Bblog. It's open-source, so will require a Linux platform and basic sysadmin skills to install on your server.

Communityserver is totally Windows-focused and will definitely need some sysadmin help to get up & running.

WordPress, if it's configured correctly, does very well with search engines. The key is to get it configured correctly so it uses search engine friendly URLs.

With DP, Do you need an extra addon to configure it to get SE friendly URLS? Thanks for the info both...

With WordPress, you don't need any extra add-ons, you just need to optimize the permalinks and the template.

I recently posted an article I wrote about Search Engine Optimization for Blogs.

There is not much difference in Blog or CMS from SEO point of view. CMS like Joomla have extension for SEF url. Still I am in favour of Joomla CMS cause it allows you to have exact url, title, and layout for your pages.

of course, although I have used wordpress, i vote joomla, its SEF compliant, pretty flexible, and all members of my site can have their own blog, again, all sef per blog

1 - you guys know this thread is over a year old, right?
2 - doesn't make the resurrection an less relevant - still good info, IMO
3 - I'd like to amend my original post by adding that WP rocks
4 - mj - I was unaware that SEF had set standards into compliance with search rules...or that we had authority to sign off on things to make them compliant... *chuckle*

your right, i didn't look at the date,

its amazing that this wasn't lost or overlooked in the blaze of activity currently going on here at SEF

the SEF in my post is Search Engine Friendly, not to be confused with Search Engine Forums

maybe SEF should come up with a set of standards?

I would agree with others on this - WP and Joomla are excellent. But recently I could notice that many sites using WP have lapsed into Google supplementals. A casual check reveals that they had implemented most of the SEO hacks. Wonder why ?

Were the wordpress sites that lapsed, site that are hosted on wordpress itself or the sites that use the WP platform on their own domain.

myblog.wordpress.com

or
www. mydomain.com/myblog

The problem with blogs and cms is that they all use php and mysql. The urls are usually gibberish, the page title and keywords and description usually all the same and the download time slow because of all the server side activity.
A blog is just a cms and a cms is just html software. The validity of the HTML is often dubious.

The best bet IMO is to use something like dreamweaver and spend a few minutes updating the links for the new pages manually. Do the whole thing in HTML. Other than that most of the open source cms and blogs need to be hacked around to insert keywords, descriptions, title, header tags, mod_rewrite or workarounds for sef urls. All of which leads to even more load on the server. There are loads of security issues with most of them so the file names and variables need to be altered as well as the table names and so on to make them secure from MySQL hacks and admin back end intrusion. It would be quicker to write one from scratch but even then it won't beat a validated and optimised HTML/CSS page. Also the whole site is on the server and keeping backups is a pain so there is a risk of losing the whole thing.

But I think Blogs and CMS are good for SEO as they remove so much of the competition and fill the search engines with plenty of low ranking pages.

I've checked a few of them out and Wordpress looked like the best bet for automating and spamming with, all of those sef hacks that are available show that it is being abused by spammers. Because they will all use the same mods, rather than writing their own, the pages and styles are all going to be very similar. Also they rely on the software authors to validate the HTML output. That's probably why Google penalises a lot of them.

just an FYI, joomla has solved all the issues you speak of, enhancements for speed and security and not just globals on or off, good URLs (read SEF) with no numbers or ? marks, the code validates, individual metas, titles and tags for each page etc. a year ago you would have been 100% correct, but they have done a great job addressing these issues as of late.

I suspect that wordpress and blogger hosted blogs are getting penalized, can prove it though

Yes but the problem with joomla, like the rest, is that it will get hacked.

These are ok for hobby site owners and ranters but not really for serious coders. I think they can be alright if re-coded and customised but they also take ages to update and correct. I haven't looked at Joomla for a while but doubt it is that much better.

Also the fact that Joomla have addressed these issues of individual titles and so on will mean that Wordpress spammers will move over to it and generate millions of similar pages and everyone who uses it will be penalised just like the Wordpress spammers. Wordpress requires modding to do it so many spammers won't be able to use it properly but if Joomla is now easy to turn into an automatic page generator there will be more and more junk churned out using it's templates. Most template cutomisation is no more than changing images and placement, the HTML is pretty much the same in all of them.

Hand coded and validated unique content in HTML is the purest, quickest and most secure method for SEO for most.

I would say though that the server is important also.

[ Message was edited by: austerian 07/30/2007 02:41 am ]

>> Were the wordpress sites that lapsed, site that are hosted on wordpress itself or the sites that use the WP platform on their own domain.

They are hosted "on their own domain". I am not talking about run-of-the-mill kind of wordpress sites, but about genuine detailed content using the standard issue of wordpress software. One of the likely reasons could be the presence of more than one URL to reach the same content. More research is required before we can say this with any certainty.

See now that's what I'm talking about. It will be some kind of common template or other, or a mod they are using that has screwed up the validation or linkage. The fact that this has happened and we don't really know why is a good enough reason to avoid all these cms systems like the plague and write our own.

HTML and css. You can't beat it really.


>> Were the wordpress sites that lapsed, site that are >>hosted on wordpress itself or the sites that use the WP >>platform on their own domain.

>>They are hosted "on their own domain". I am not talking >>about run-of-the-mill kind of wordpress sites, but about >>genuine detailed content using the standard issue of >>wordpress software. One of the likely reasons could be >>the presence of more than one URL to reach the same >>content. More research is required before we can say this >>with any certainty.

It is all a matter of exigencies - I suppose. About 3 years ago, my partner wanted to launch a content portal for which we developed a simple management system using SSI ( server side Includes) and a Perl script which populated the page from a text file. Now when it has grown to thousands of pages, it is a hard task to create the links files by hand.

Yet, the webmaster sticks to the primitive CMS as it serves the purpose well enough.

For people who are not familiar with HTML, CMS offers an easy way to publish pages. The trouble is even for those who are familiar with PHP or other language(s) programming, they don't expend the energy to modify/tweak the software to suit their individual needs.

i've found that nothing works perfectly or suits all of my needs right out of the box. The open source programs just give me a good starting point to build what I need. Also, the cms systems still do not replace knowledge of html, php, and programming and database work. But they sure make things easier.

I think that's right mj1256 it's still a necessary to know the code. I think cms software can be good in some ways, but I've yet to find it. Linkage is a possible benefit but have you seen some of the links? Questions marks, hundreds of letters and numbers; who's gonna click that?

I think cms/blogware is good for add ons to rock solid html sites; like forums or link harvesters for example. But to base a whole business on an open source forum on a shared server with an athlon 533 chip - no chance. If you can't rewrite the source to secure it you're looking for trouble, if you're running a php no coding required site get a dedicated top line server or half the visitors won't stick around to read it. Server side sites are ok in San Francisco aimed at a high bandwidth SF clientele but most folk are bandwidth challenged and download time is still crucial. PHP/MySQL is tomorrow's SEO IMO. But the more wordpress,mambo,joomla,bblog etc sites there are the better.

Let's face it most blogs are rants and most of the cms sites look the same and they all have the same file names etc. CMS is for lamers - learn the code I say.

[ Message was edited by: austerian 07/31/2007 12:49 pm ]

i know your mind is made up and I'm not going to change it, but in the last year the CMS systems, joomla, drupal, etc have solved the bad code, bad url, and security issues. The code is pretty good, the urls and pages are search engine friendly, and they have many server programs for security.

I recently made a mistake when speaking to a client. they wanted a 3rd party component integrated into the site and I advised against it based on the last look I had of it back in december. It just wasn't ready for prime time. Just by chance I took a look at it a few days ago and low and behold, it is now super, awesome and everything it should have been. Software development is not stagnant and is constantly being improved and updated.

You may want to take a new look at some of the systems you have dissed.

You are right about shared server issues. And its not the CMS or Blog plaform that is spamming, its the users using them. I good website or blog, no matter what its made in, is still a good website.

I can't see how you could advise a commercial client, rather than a hobbyist, to even consider a php/mysql site without a dedicated top line server and a custom writeen api. I mean I've done plenty but they don't do as well as a much more expensive HTML/CSS SEO site, no way.

But you're right an honest user just sees the site (albeit after a delay if it's php) and that's what sells the concept not the code.

I just got an email from Zeus, the folk who do that link exchange software. Their latest product converts php sites to optimised and validated HTML. I suppose only a lamer would need software to do that but they can see a demand.

Even if you have a topline dedicated they all seem to lame out and use .htaccess for rewrite which puts far too much load on the server. If you're on a shared and have .htaccess it's a lot worse. I have seen a good work around for mambo/joomla that rewrites the urls without mod-rewrite and .htaccess but this wasn't produced by the developers. Most CMS/Blogs are far too complicated and provide far more features than a basic site owner needs. Also, because you have to update the site on the server it takes forever and compomises any traffic you may have at the time. Every visitor counts for most of us so why risk it.

i advise my clients to use top of the line dedicated servers from a good hosting provider that specializes in the CMS/Platform used. It makes all of the difference in the world. There are also specialists that I work with to optimise for speed. If the resources are their, all can be done.

your right, its the 3rd party developers that have solved many of these issues for the CMS and Blogging platforms.

Yes, they are far to robist for many of my clients needs

as for updates, i haven't have any problems, its not like the server has to be rebooted, like with .asp sites and the users get kicked off. Its just upload and install a new component, (after its been fully developed and tested on a development server) and turn it on.


Everything has its drawbacks and work arounds, even the tried and true HTML sites have limitations. everything is a trade off, it all depends on what your trying to do and what your expectations are.