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~~* OMG *~~ I am in LOVE! ( with google tools ) (In: Google)
Google PR (In: Google)
Google (In: Pay Per Click - Google/Yahoo & Others)
How much Organic Traffic do you get from Google (In: General Search Engine Optimization)
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-03 09:48
What percentage of total ad dollars brought in for ads displayed on AdSense partners goes to the ad partner site? Google doesn't say. Has someone had success in getting that answered?? Do the Ad partners get 20% of the total revenue? 15%? 30%? or what?
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-04 00:35
anyone able to find out?
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-04 08:16
Anyone working with AdSense? Seems Google is being tight-lipped about disclosing the percentages which I think is a bit shady. Would you do advertising for a network that wouldn't tell you what percentage you would earn per click?
How many here work for a company that won't tell you how much you will get paid each week for your pay check?
It's hard to determine if Google is paying well or not. You just have to trust them they are being fair.
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Logan
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
# Posts: 3749
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Posted: 2003-Jul-04 19:54
I've had the same experience curt, you are not missing anything. Actually, if you advertise within AdWords they don't tell you exactly what you pay per click either. While you are able to set a maximum amount, they simply display you average cost per click - and never your actual cost per click. I also think there is an issue with this approach.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-05 01:53
Yes I know about the adwords bit. At least with adwords, you still know what your maximum setting is. With AdSense, the advertisers have no idea what-so-ever what their percentage of ad sales is.
It could be 5% of ad sales which IMO would be a rip-off in revenue sharing percentage for advertisers.
If you don't like how they keep secrets, they could care less because they figure they will find other advertisers who will work with them no matter how secretive they are.
WE are suppose to trust them no matter what. Keeping information like that secret does not foster trust.
Not a good advertiser/search engine relationship.
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Ron Carnell
Joined: May 15, 2001
# Posts: 206
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Posted: 2003-Jul-05 03:20
Why would it matter?
Whether a 35 cent click-through is one percent of $35 or fifty percent of 70 cents won't determine whether I feel the 35 cents is enough to pay for my screen real estate. While I certainly hope Google is making enough to maintain the program, at the end of the day all I care about is whether it's profitable for ME.
Do they offer me enough? That's the only question I need to ask because it's the only answer that is going to determine who gets my advertising space.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6805
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Posted: 2003-Jul-05 04:35
Excellent post, Ron.
If it works (benefits vs costs) for you, great. If it doesn't, dump them. If it doesn't work for you, then it won't for many others. The best way to get a commercial organization to sit up and take notice is to vote with your feet.
My view is that Adsense is a very innovative and interesting product, and being new, is likely to be substantially fine tuned over the next year or so. Google have proven to be receptive to input and prepared to make adjustments where necessary, to their products.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-05 13:35
All very true. However, I want more than 1% of ad revenue if that was what they are paying. I'd feel a bit ripped off if I knew they there hoarding nearly all the pay.
I suppose all one can do is give it a try and see what it divides out to be. If it appears to be averaging 2 cents per click, something's wrong. Bye bye GG ads. I know for a fact that many advertisers are paying $1.50 per click or more. The advertiser should get at least 30 or 40 cents of that amount.
The concept is cool. I'm hoping it pays well for publisher sites that run the ads.
So tell me, how would you feel if you were making 20 cents per click only to find out somehow (through some source) that the actual bid was at $3 per click (7% revenue)? Wouldn't you want just a tad bit bigger part of the pie?? Maybe more like 70 cents (23% revenue)? That's what bugs me knowing that there could be more made for advertisers. Even with that Google would be plenty well compensated for their program. Seems fair to me to disclose the percentage.
However, at the moment they can change the percentage whenever they want and we won't know if we're being chopped or not. I happen to feel better with more complete disclosure. I'm not asking what the actual bids are, just what the percentage of revenue is.
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Ron Carnell
Joined: May 15, 2001
# Posts: 206
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Posted: 2003-Jul-05 15:30
Wouldn't you want just a tad bit bigger part of the pie??
When my sister has me over for dinner, she invariably bakes a pie. On Thanksgiving, she usually bakes five or six. In both instances, though, I usually eat just one piece.
While I know that's a bad analogy in many ways, it does express one common point. Greed can give you heartburn. 
I haven't applied for the AdSense program yet, and will have to make some adjustments to my sites before I do. But I will make those adjustments, and I will apply, because many friends have told me the average CPM will likely be better than I can find with most ad networks. There are wide variances in the reports I hear, which should be expected in a targeted market, but the lowest reports are decent and the highest reports nearly compare to 1999 levels. Almost as importantly, I think, visitors are actually going to see ads that might interest them, thus making my site more valuable to them. Although that's intangible, I feel it counts. I win on just about every front. Should I really care if Google wins more than me? Even if it happens to be a whole lot more?
Nope. I just don't like Rolaids all that much.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2003-Jul-06 04:20
Google won't tell you the percentage. They just won't. All I can say is that you should test test test the Google Adsense program on a site and see for yourself if it makes you more money than what you're getting from other affiliate programs or other means, such as selling advertising on your site.
There are people out there that aren't doing well at all with Adsense: their click-thru percentages are horrible and they're making less than they did with other affiliate programs. Yet there are others that are doing double or triple the amount of income than they were getting with affiliate programs.
Every website is different, they all appeal to different audiences, and they get their traffic from many different sources. Test Test Test everything you can. Then test again.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-06 14:24
While I know that's a bad analogy in many ways, it does express one common point. Greed can give you heartburn.
Ron, that is a bad/good analogy  
If google eats too much pie, it might not go well with them either since they too would be too greedy. Your comment is a double edged sword. ... and BTW, you still know how much of the pie you are eating
I like fairness and enough disclosure to make a more educated choice. I hate being in the dark and I feel in the dark on this one.
The sites doubling or tripling income on AdSense were likely doing so badly anything is better than what they were making before hand. It's like when a person works for minimum wage and gets a Job making $7 an hour. It's a jump. However, I'd have a hard time making it on that wage and I imagine you would too.
Some people may very well do good with it. If Google makes a bundle, that's OK with me as long as I get a good share of the money pie (aka it's worth the advertiser's time). Sadly we won't know our share of the pie--a disservice to us.
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 143
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Posted: 2003-Jul-08 21:31
We've just switched over to using adsense here at Jimworld.
I'll be reporting on it in a future gazette article.
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Rivux
Joined: Dec 08, 2002
# Posts: 77
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 03:33
I'm still not sure why you really need to know what percentage they are giving you. Just by looking at your clicks, income and CTR you should get a really good idea of whether its worth it to you.
Lets say I give you 5k to design a website, if 5k is worth it to you to build the website, and you agree to do it for that amount, why does it matter if I only have 5k total in my bank or if I have 20 million in my bank? Are you going to feel cheated and not do the project because I have lots of money? No, of course not. You evaluate whether you would do the project on the amount you are receiving, not on how much I have available to spend.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 07:05
I'm accustomed to seeing the percentage of revenue disclosed on various ad agencies. Google is an ad agency but doesn't disclose the percentage of revenue.
Rivux, would you be satisfied making only 10 cents per click if Google was making $3 per click? (which figures to be 3% of revenue) However, you'll have no idea whether or not you were making a measly percentage or a good percentage. Other ad agencies are paying 30% or more of revenue. Perhaps google converts better (or not) don't know too much there. There are advantages to google ads in a couple ways. Still would feel a bit better knowing some percentage.
I suppose some people are OK being handed anything that comes there way even if it's just peanuts (not saying that google is not paying fair... just have no way to verify it).
Interested in John's report when he reports it.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6805
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 08:39
Curt, this reminds me of the call to the plumber to fix a with the toilet, which was flooding the basement. The plumber came and used a 25 cent washer to fix the problem but charged $150. Cost breakdown:
$0.25 Washer
$10.00 Labor (at the mimimum wage)
$139.75 Premium, for the plumber's knowledge.
I'm not going to get too far with the plumber arguing that he should have only charged me minimum wage rates for his labor.
If Google is making $3 and only offering me 10 cents and my choice is 10 cents or nothing, then I'm going to take 10 cents. The $2.90 difference is the equivalent of the minimum wage plus a premium for their specialized knowledge and service.
Worry less about what they are making and concentrate on what you are making.
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jcokos
Staff
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 143
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 09:00
One of the troubling things about this system is the complete lack of information regarding anything about how it works.
I can understand them not disclosing the percentages, but ...
In looking at the stats for yesteday (Tuesday), I'm puzzled by them.
Google shows 65,735 impressions and 146 clicks for yesterday. I know for a fact, that the forums alone (not including the other jimworld domains/content) did about 120,000 impressions yesterday, and the rest of Jimworld about another 40-50,000
Where google gets that number appears to be arbitray (is that unique IPs that saw ads?). Also, for the clicks, there's no indication as to what pages generated a click, how many, what was the targeted words, nothing.
Their report is literally one line: Impressions, Clicks, CTR, Earnings.
No details at all.
While I can't argue with the amount earned, I do have a sense of wonder about the whole thing. It's like they're letting us show their ads all over the place, and pulling numbers out of a hat.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 09:15
Worry less about what they are making and concentrate on what you are making.
Yes, I want to make more and want to know how much I could be making within reason. The plumber analogy doesn't really fit here--comparing apples to oranges--2 very different businesses and situations.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3735
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 09:25
If I knew that Google was only paying 2% of ads, I wouldn't bother with them. And 25-30% now that's a different story. That could be lucrative. But no I have to take time to sign up, get approved, and take more time redesigning my site to fit their criteria, remove other ads and affiliate referral links that I am making some money on and do some risk taking all in an attempt to do some testing the waters.
I would be more equipted to avoid having to do all that if I had some idea before hand. For people with nothing to lose, it's no big deal. For others who would like to convert over but can't seem to determine the value and don't want to lose what they already have, have no way to evaluate it other than to run the risk and time. That's the point I'm making.
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Ron Carnell
Joined: May 15, 2001
# Posts: 206
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 13:55
If I knew that Google was only paying 2% of ads, I wouldn't bother with them. And 25-30% now that's a different story. That could be lucrative.
Really, Curt? I'll give you, not just 25-30 percent, but a whopping fifty percent of the PPC off the ads I'm selling!
Uh, except I'm not selling any. So that's fifty percent of nothing. But, hey, it's got to be lucrative, right?
I'll admit, of course, that Google isn't giving publishers a whole lot of information, but I strongly suspect that's because we're looking at two different mindsets. Publishers are viewing the program as an advertising network, and Google is viewing it as an affiliate program. That seems clear by their willingness to let you run the ads on ANY web site once you've been approved. Compare the information Google is providing to what you might see at CJ, and note the similarities.
You want a rough sense of evaluation, Curt? Google has been running the same exact program, more or less, through numerous ad networks, including FastClick, for a month or two now. Not as CPC, but as CPM. If you had the chance to run that old "punch the money" banner as CPM or CPC, which would you choose? Wanna bet that on average (remember, Google's AdSense is targeted), the CPC paid through the new program will be at least as high as the CPM Google has been paying to ad networks?
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Rivux
Joined: Dec 08, 2002
# Posts: 77
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Posted: 2003-Jul-09 17:01
jcokos, google seems to not show ads for all users. I had a friend look at a site to let me know how the ads looked on his resolution. He emailed me a screenshot and the ad wasn't even showing up for him. He has javascript enabled, latest browser, standard OS/software installed etc. So I am not sure how they determine who sees ads and who doesn't.
Curt, as Ron said, would you prefer 50% of 10 cents or 5% of 10 dollars? The point is how much you make off of that percentage not what the actual percentage is.
You keep saying that the program is only good 'if you are willing to accept anything', this is just ludicrous and I am not sure why you keep coming back to that point. The program is good, if the revenue per click you are receiving works well for your business. Right now I am making about 36 cents per click, with an INCREASE in ctr, so not only are these ads generating more clicks, but they are paying me more for each of these clicks. Tell me, please, how it matters what google gets compared to the 36 cents I receive?
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