Paul987
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
# Posts: 115
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Posted: 02/07/2004 05:53 am
Im begining to wonder how important the design of a site actually is. For example i was looking at this site [url removed] . When i look at it i notice all the things that are wrong with it. The colours dont match, they have used the default font and the whole thing just looks tacky. But does this actually matter because the site actually works. So my question is does Joe average customer actually care ? Will this site be losing sales becuase of the design ? Or is it just becuase im a designer myself so i notice all of these things ?
[ Message was edited by: thejenn 02/09/2004 07:16 am ]
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14504
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Posted: 02/07/2004 09:04 am
I think that design plays a very big part... there is a balance though. I have noticed actually that sometimes on early sites, if I upgrade them to a more "modern" look they have lost sales..
There will always be something about an obviously homegrown site that appeals to some... maybe it is the feeling of reaching out to and communicating with real people that works more than a slick shell that sells... Paul that is an interesting subject you have brought forward.
What do others think?
For me - I know, I don't care how slick you are, you have to speak to me to get me to buy. The example given is a little extreme, but there must be lots of room in here to move around the subject.
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Paul987
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
# Posts: 115
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Posted: 02/07/2004 09:32 am
For me it has to be a question of trusting the person im giving my money too and i would need to be convinced to trust that site. While others eg amazon could have to have a pretty bad design before i wouldnt buy, because they have built up a brand and you know that they will do what they say they will. But with a company i have never heard of its a much bigger issue imho.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14504
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Posted: 02/07/2004 09:54 am
Yes, exactly - and if they have broken images etc. then I don't think I am going to trust them very far! :D
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Paul987
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
# Posts: 115
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Posted: 02/07/2004 12:22 pm
Yes exactly. But the thing is that company could be very good for all i know, as a bad company could have splashed out on an expensive website just as easy. But when i look at that site i know that it was probably developed by some kid on his first go with Frontpage, and so i dont think this company is very serious about their online business. The overall question though is does the average user realise this? Because i dont know if they are looking at websites in the same way as me, an ultra critial web designer.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14504
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Posted: 02/07/2004 07:21 pm
Hmmm.. I am not sure about the "average" user but I am flabbergasted sometimes when I have an in coming client and I ask them for examples of sites they like...sometimes all I can say is - why? LOL They do indicate that they have not a clue as to good or bad design sometimes.
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Paul987
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
# Posts: 115
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Posted: 02/08/2004 03:26 am
Yes i dont understand how people dont take the same care with their website as they would with another part of their business, eg a brochure ? You dont see too many bad brochures do you ? All very confusing.
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 02/11/2004 03:25 pm
"if I upgrade them to a more "modern" look they have lost sales"
Have noticed the same thing. My most embarassing sites do really well and also apeal to the owners of the sites and visitors.
I think as time goes on you have a tendency to put all your skills into action and end up with a site that loses its personal touch.
It also depends what sort of business you are talking about. Am finding, for example, bed and breakfast's are one type of site that often do better having a "home grown look" rather than a proffesional looking site. Guess it gives people that more personal type of feel which is what bed and brekky frequenters are after.
As opposed to an eccommerce site where if it was not professional looking nobody would use it. 
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pjnunn777
Joined: Jul 17, 2003
# Posts: 381
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Posted: 02/12/2004 03:50 am
>>It also depends what sort of business you are talking about. Am finding, for example, bed and breakfast's are one type of site that often do better having a "home grown look" rather than a professional looking site.>>
Totally agree...people expect to see a certain level of "design" dependent on the market you are in. A website advertising a companies graphic design capabilities should be completely different to one advertising B & B.
It's important (not just in web design) but in all aspects of marketing to know who is your target market. An elderly woman looking for blue rinse hair dye, may not appreciate that highly flashed/animated/contemporary design that you just did...
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14504
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Posted: 02/12/2004 06:54 am
Exactly... it's all about getting into the target markets mind and communicating.
Positioning follows focus on the end user...that's Internet Marketing.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 02/12/2004 02:52 pm
What she said
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stevenjm
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 824
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Posted: 02/14/2004 11:39 pm
I often get payed out on for using frames but have found through researching the target often, depending on the target, they prefer a framed site with fixed left hand navigation.
(just an example)
Just because designers do not like something does not mean they should be avoided.
in some cases a site that seems tacky to a designer has far greater selling power.
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T. J. Daniels
Joined: Aug 19, 2000
# Posts: 183
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Posted: 02/15/2004 11:42 am
I use G because I want to search, not borrow money, buy a car, rent a movie, find a date, find a job, or any of the 100's of things that Yahoo offers. Yahoo's main page is much to 'cluttered' for me. Googles main page is so 'uncluttered'. That's one of the things that I love about G. If I want to locate any of those things, I can do a search on G.
http://www.yahoo.com/
http://www.google.com/
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JQ
Staff
Joined: Mar 11, 2001
# Posts: 2723
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Posted: 02/15/2004 11:59 am
I expect a certain level of professionalism from a site before it gains my confidence. This includes reasonable load times, not having too much "blinky-blinky" stuff or huge all-centered bold text in bright colors, etc.
I'm more forgiving of design than I am of functionality. I want to see clear, logical and consistent navigation throughout the site. I don't want to encounter any 404s. I want to see an "about" page that convinces me you're someone I want to do business with. I want to know about shipping and return policies. I want to be assured my transaction is secure. And I can't tell you how many times I've seen sign-ups on sites with no privacy policy at all. Or how many sites with domain names that have contact addys on AOL or Hotmail.
Creating a design is one thing, but building a site requires an anal attention to the detail and testing of the site to make sure there are no problems a visitor might encounter.
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philh
Joined: Sep 14, 2001
# Posts: 3050
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Posted: 02/15/2004 03:25 pm
excell & JeromeQ - on the button...
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Paul987
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
# Posts: 115
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Posted: 02/16/2004 02:34 am
Thanks for all the comments/ideas. I agree that functionality is very important as a site needs to be a user friendly as possible. But i do believe a site can be functional but still stylish. Also i was having a look at some sites take http://www.ccsports-online.co.uk/ for example, in my mind the top bar is unforgivable. There is no way i would buy from that store.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14504
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Posted: 02/16/2004 03:22 am
Paul in all seriousness, I am sure that if those site owners wanted help they would make their way to a place where they could get help or a review...
This forum is one of those places and we all agree on a blend of asthetics/functionality/usability/accessibility that meets the target markets needs in the most beneficial way being the best. If you need help with your web site - we can help you... if you want to talk in general about good & bad design that's fine, but please don't post the URL examples...we all know what bad design is. Thanks.
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Enterprise
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
# Posts: 132
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Posted: 02/22/2004 10:15 pm
This is a fascinating question because it reveals the difference in expectations between web designers, the people they make sites for and the end user.
It can also mean the difference between forging a long term relationship with a client or making a site and moving on, never to hear from the client again.
Before I publish a web site I run it past the eyes of a bunch of people who use the Internet frequently.
These people can be broadly separated into two groups:
1 - Those who work on the Internet (designers, programmers etc.)
2 - Those who just use the Internet for pleasure, shopping or finding information etc.
I can pretty much guarantee that those two groups will always disagree on what is or isn't a 'good' site design.
Group 1 wants to see modern 'state of the art' design with all the wuffles and tweedles before they will trust a site.
Group 2 don't give a rat's a*s if the site was a first attempt using Front Page (or anything else) as long as they find what they are looking for. Quickly.
I know several (reputable) people who make six figures every year from eBook sales. Their sites all follow the same formula:
- Front page with lots of hype and testimonials (9 - 15 screens long!!) very low tech etc.
- Second page to buy the eBook in question.
- When you leave the site there is a pop-under asking you to visit another site and/or join their mailing list.
They are not, for the most part, pretty sites. They are not high tech. They are delivering something the end user wants, however.
I too find clients' examples of sites they wish to model their own on peculiar sometimes but they are the experts in their field. They know what their audience wants. Listen to them.
Make suggestions so that they know all of the options available but don't try to force your opinion on them with regards to how the site looks. Concentrate on making the site easy to navigate...that is always the #1 priority in my humble opinion....and quick to download
If a site fails in it's goal, you could end up taking the blame if you talk the client into something they don't want at the git go.
If it succeeds, you could have a steady income from it from updates etc. for years to come.
If the design is 'embarra*sing' to you...leave it out of your portfolio. Better still use it as an example of how a simple site can succeed.
The bottom line is the bottom line. Don't let your preconceptions of what constitutes a 'good design' get in the way of income.
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Enterprise
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
# Posts: 132
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Posted: 02/22/2004 10:18 pm
Embarrassing was censored ... too funny
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nickn0783
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
# Posts: 1371
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Posted: 02/23/2004 02:36 am
T.J. Daniels
This isn't cluttered - http://search.yahoo.com/
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