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    Alan_Thompson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2000
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-22 05:05
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    Wanted to bring an off-topic strand about the Americans with Disabilities Act from this thread over here as a more appropriate place for this topic.

    There was some controversy in the other thread about the potential impact of this Act on site design. I believe it will certainly expand the definition of "visitor friendly" sites, and that there is a very real potential for litigation at some point.

    I'd be interested in others' opinions on this.

    (Hi Diane, nice to find you here working this beat. )

    [This message has been edited by Alan_Thompson (edited 06-21-2000).]



    tedster
    Joined: Apr 17, 2000
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-22 18:43
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    The ADA was written originally in very broad language. The intent was that the courts would clarify in particular cases, rather than creating another regulatory agency for enforcement. So you can almost guarantee there will be lawsuits.

    The first place they are likely to crop up is on corporate intranets, where usability would be critical for employment. But never rule out a big class action suit against a highly visible public website, done partly to bring the issue into general public awareness.

    Still, I feel the greatest burden should be carried by the manufacturers of devices that adapt websites for the physically challenged.



    DianeV
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-22 07:02
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    Hi Alan and tedster.

    I must admit that I cannot envision how this thing would work, and haven't yet found any articles explaining it. They all say that we must comply ... but comply how?

    Does a special browser ... read alt tags aloud? What (other) disabilities are we talking about here?



    DianeV
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-22 07:10
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    Hm. I just checked out that thread and am copying some links here:

    World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) "Web Content Accessibility Guidelines http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/
    (Guess that page will take a couple of days to read.)

    Disabilities Rights Office http://www.fcc.gov/cib/dro/section255.html

    To test pages: http://www.cast.org/bobby/





    Lynne Scott
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-22 07:58
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    Just took a quick look through those w3.org recommendations. The gist of the information there is that we have to make our pages pretty much incomprehensible to the non-disabled visitor, in order to make it accessible to the disabled.

    The recommendations include using largely unsupported tags: THEAD, TBODY, TFOOTER, and stylesheets instead of tables for layout. Last time I checked, only ONE browser fully supported css, and none of them did anything comprehensible with the THEAD, et al nonsense.

    The one I liked best was the suggestion that we all revert to writing at the grade 5 level, because current speech simulators can't understand complex sentences. Neither can they understand embedded subjects, subject predicate inversion, qualifiers, or modifiers. You know -- the things that everyone uses in everyday speech and writing.

    About the only thing in the whole document that made any sense, was the suggestion to use a spell checker.



    josephjaminet
    Joined: Aug 02, 1999
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-26 10:46
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    http://www.cast.org/bobby/



    DianeV
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-26 23:17
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    Suite101.com's section on Web accessibility:
    http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/accessible_web_design

    Aware.org's Common Myths About Web Accessibility

    [This message has been edited by DianeV (edited 06-26-2000).]



    Alan_Thompson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2000
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-29 05:15
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    Thanks josephjaminet an DianeV for posting those really good resources.




    thailand
    Joined: Jan 23, 2000
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-30 02:33
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    Interestingly enough when you plug Http://www.WhiteHouse.gov site into BOBBY, guess what? This page does not yet meet the requirements for Bobby Approved status. lol http://www.cast.org/bobby/



    DianeV
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    Posted: 2000-Jun-30 02:56
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    Good one.

    (Daring to ask Lynne a question) --
    "Neither can they understand embedded subjects, subject predicate inversion, qualifiers, or modifiers ..."

    If I get you right, you can't use any adverbs or adjectives (which should make for the world's longest sentences) or ... poetic styles where the verb comes before the subject?



    Lynne Scott
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    Posted: 2000-Jul-03 15:51
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    That seems to be what the document is saying, Diane. According to the "techniques" document, accessible pages conform to current speech simulator technology. Since speech simulators can't understand complex language, sites that use poetic, or lyrical, or just plain interesting language are not compliant. I believe that simple adjectives are okay, but more advanced things, like similes and metaphors, adverbs other than the "add ly to the adjective" form, or abstract concepts can apparently cause speech simulators to squawk out nonsense. Advanced punctuation usage and sentence fragments may also cause problems.

    The compatibility documents also lay out a series of instructions for making lists and nested lists comprehensible to speech simulators. These are pretty straight forward, but your pages with simple or nested lists are going to end up looking like legal documents -- which may or may not comply with your design concept for the page.



    cooldug
    Joined: Jun 28, 2000
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    Posted: 2000-Jul-07 23:00
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    Does anyone remember the old program Simpletext, the one that would sing back the words you typed in? That program has been around for at least 5 years (since my junior high, maybe more). That seemed to do pretty well with words other than names. It made mistakes, but you could understand them in the context. much like someone just learning a language.

    My question is: Has so little advanced in the past years that trying to change the english language is easier than programming some better software?

    And if everyone does comply to their standards, then what happens to development? If all the sites comply, then there is no need for improvement.

    Personally, I think I will give the programmers a challenge and stick to my current text.


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