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msprozac
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 27
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Posted: 01/14/2004 05:52 pm
[Thread continued from original thread]
I'm an extremely unhappy Traffic Logic customer and have requested a refund of my money. My sales rep Jay is more than willing to give me the run around. This whole experience has been nothing short of a nightmare.
Be smart, keep your money and don't do business with them. So far I am out 0 and I have had NO INCREASE IN SALES thanks to them.
[ Message was edited by: thejenn 03/23/2004 10:34 am ]
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kevleitch
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
# Posts: 53
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Posted: 01/19/2004 06:23 am
Sidenote: as someone who is also the joint adminstrator of a web related resource site, don't forget that Admin is human too and just as culpable and capable of anger- why should Admin be any less suceptible to getting angry with service abusers?
Oh and I think this site is great. By and large my experience of administrating sites has led me to the conclusion that the people who moan about how mcuh a site has changes are usually not woth bothering about and contribute little anyway.
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MerchantPrince
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
# Posts: 24
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Posted: 01/22/2004 02:09 pm
I started reading this entire thread (whew!) so as to learn more about Trafficlogic, as I recently contracted service with them. I've already been debited the first two payments of my $1500 contract and have yet to see whether any results will be forthcoming. I did state to my TrafficLogic sales rep that my policy with any new vendor is to commit no more than $500 before seeing a return. They agreed to this and I'll be watching to insure they confrom to our arrangement.
I've noticed much of the attacks posted in this thread seem to be more juvenile and even hysterical - a whole lot of attacks and innuendo with no real posted evidence. I'm concerned about TrafficLogic of course, because I've been burned as much as anybody else by shady operators on the web. I'd grown so wary, in fact, that I pretty much stuck to doing my own SEO work for the last year or so.
But the recent Google f***over, er, sorry.. algo change, left me stranded high and dry along with thousands of other webmasters who watched their good content replaced by top ten lists of utter garbage (including a few fly-by-night competitors who'd blatantly plagiarized our copyrighted content -- thanks, Google).
So now I'm back in the market looking for help, including good direct email brokers and SEO assistance. I've posted on several forums like this one looking for references, to only hear people repeating the same old mantra "get a PPC account". Nice, but there are only about four PPCs worth using and I'm on all of them. Even the best ones can't deliver the larger amounts of traffic I need to really get my business growing again.
So I'm going to let TrafficLogic continue for now and see how they handle my account. The 30+ terms they settled on for me sure don't seem like they'd generate the kind of traffic I've been promised, but I could be wrong.
I'd be happy to post here my ongoing experience with them...
[ Message was edited by: MerchantPrince 01/22/2004 02:29 pm ]
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stazuk
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 18
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Posted: 01/22/2004 06:06 pm
Steve Lazuka here again with Traffic Logic. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to MSProzac's post above:
1. Toni (MSProzac) claims that she never got any updates or communication. It was later proven that we, in fact, did send her several email updates... she even responded to us from one of them. I can post it here if she'd like.
2. [Personal account details removed.] When I found out, we disabled her account and refunded her money immediately. All content we created about this subject has been deleted from our network. Our sales team was more than happy to be done with this client she called us 3 times per day always with some new issue she was not happy with.
It has been a long standing policy that Traffic Logic will not promote pornogrophy, drugs, or any type of hate-type subjects. This experience has taught me that I need to add "Morbid Violence" to this list of products we will not promote.
Everyone reading this will have to decipher the truth in this matter. All i can say is that we do our best to deliver a good product. We are not perfect and we are willing to admit when something goes wrong, like it does in any business. When we make a mistake or dont deliver what we say, we are glad to refund money to the client (that's why we have a perfect Better Business Bureau record). However, in this case, we refunded this client's money because we refuse to promote her product... period.
[ Message was edited by: thejenn 03/25/2004 12:29 pm ]
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stazuk
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 18
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Posted: 01/22/2004 06:15 pm
MerchantPrice - I appreciate you giving Traffic Logic the opportunity to prove to you what we can do.
I took a look at your account. I see that your content just went live about 3 weeks ago and it's already delivering about 70 hits per day. That is about 2,100 visitors per month. This is just the very beginning of what we will do for you since the content usually organically gets more traffic over time. We will continually work to increase your traffic volume over time.
Thank you for your business.
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stazuk
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 18
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Posted: 01/22/2004 06:45 pm
Sorry folks... i had to make just one more comment. I hadn't visited this forum for a long time until today.
A long time ago one of our client, Truck Xpressions, created this posting, asking about Traffic Logic. Many competing SEO companies proceeded to attack us and advised our client to ask for a refund and cancel their account. Our client chose to say with us to see for himself what we could do.
Truck Xpressions is now one of our happiest and most loyal clients.
This doesn't mean we are perfect. It just means that sometimes it's better to listen to your instinct rather than others. We are in the business of pure, organic, high quality search engine content. What could possible be wrong with that? All it comes down to is the volume of traffic we deliver and the quality of that traffic. We do a good job for a great majority of our clients. When we dont meet up to our own standards in a reasonable time period, however, we are happy to refund the client their money.
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msprozac
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 27
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Posted: 01/22/2004 07:51 pm
There is another thread on this company, you are welcome to join us under the ppc thread
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MerchantPrince
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
# Posts: 24
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Posted: 02/09/2004 11:29 am
To anyone still following this thread:
I wanted to update everyone as to my ongoing experiences with Trafficlogic - as I'd promised to do so in my earlier post.
It's been about three weeks now since the portal site they built for me began sending in small amounts of traffic. The amounts have been steady, if unspectacular.
I've paid out the first $500 of the $1500 contracted in my clickthrough campaign and have seen $85 in debits so far in actual visitors. Trafficlogic agreed with my terms - originally set through my sales agent - that they would not debit any further total funds until I saw greater traffic and earnings.
So here's what's happened so far. I've had about $85 in clickthroughs go through which resulted in 9 total sales of my product, priced at $19. As the item is a downloadable information product, my net is still about $18.55 per unit (rates are slightly different for my merchant account sales versus those through PayPal).
So I've earned about $170 or so on the first $85 in spending. Twice the investment is a good rate, albeit one at a lower volume than I'd like to see for this amount of initial investment. But the campaign is still young and the portal site still in the process of being spidered and ranked by the various engines. We ought to see greater upticks in traffic in the weeks ahead.
So that's where I'm at. Trafficlogic has not ripped me off and their customer service reps have been honest about the billing terms we all agreed to from the very beginning. So far, the amounts are very small and not much more than a 2nd-tier PPC engine, but I am bring patient enough - given that at least there has been some profitability so far.
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jesbasementsystems
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
# Posts: 269
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Posted: 02/16/2004 11:40 pm
Wow - what a lot to read through!!
I have to add my two cents worth to this. I do SEM for my company, and have some side jobs for myself and other business clients. One of the biggest things I've learned is that perception is everything. One customer of mine demanded focus on one search term that gets VERY little searches (<30 through Wordtracker). After explaining this point, I did what was asked. He's happy with the results, but isn't getting orders. Bottom line, he's happy with what I did for him.
If truck (or anyone else we deal with) is sold on the "5 cents per click compared to 34 cents with overture" hot button, then so be it. People buy what they want, not what they need. It is our duty, however, to provide our opinion on anything that may help someone else.
Bottom line, business is takign calculated risks. You cant know everything. If the $7500 wasn't a big investment for his advertsiin budget, why not try it?
Finally, the only downfall I can see with this method (aside form the debated spam issues) is the fact that after yu end the contract, the company can still reap the benefits of the traffic. its kind of like having someone fund your start-up company, getthing their money back with a small profit, but not reaping the benefits when you go IPO and the stock triples overnight.
Stepping off my soapbox....
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MerchantPrince
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
# Posts: 24
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Posted: 03/09/2004 02:11 pm
Sorry it has taken me some time to get back to you all. Indeed I have been in discussions with Traffic Logic over the last two days regarding my account and what I've seen so far. I post this reply to give anyone still following this thread an update.
At this time I would somewhat recommend against doing business with Traffic Logic. Although they have sent decent traffic my way for the first two months the program has been in operation, the traffic volume itself is still pretty low - around 40 visitors per day on average.
I have been debited for $750 worth of clicks and seen about $200 of that spent to date in actual visitors. From this traffic, I witnessed decent (not great) conversion rates - right around 1%. For my product, this has yielded just under $400 in revenue.
So although the ROI is still good, I'm concerned that at this point the overall traffic is still too low, the equivalent of a second-tier PPC engine like Findwhat on the 40 keyphrases they chose.
For an account which will amount to $1500 in expenses, I'd expect a greater volume of daily traffic, leading to greater clickthroughs and eventual sales. This to justify the expense of $250 debited regularly on a month-to-month basis.
I do intend to keep updating this thread in the weeks ahead so others may keep abreast of my experience with them.
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SmartROI
Joined: Nov 18, 2003
# Posts: 288
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Posted: 03/09/2004 04:29 pm
MerchantPrince
I'm not affiliated in any way with TrafficLogic, but I do and have done business with a somewhat similiar model. If your ROI is there, and you're getting 40 targeted visitors per day, I don't think it's something I would "recommend against."
The truth is that real search engine visitors are harder to get than with PPC advertising. Some of this has to with the inability to control the placement of the listing, but you should also factor in that there probably isn't any incentive for fraud with their method... while Overture and other PPC's are riddled with affiliate fraud, spyware and competitor sabotage. Plus, with the "content" sites that they are creating whereas the visitors have to click (to your site) yet again, I would think that the person REALLY wants to find out more about what you have to offer.
From what you've said, it appears that you're getting traffic at 8 to 10 cents per targeted visitor. Even if this is as high as 15c, you're still getting a good cost per visit. Keep in mind that you haven't had to pay $2500 to $7500 for SEO work, and from their way of doing business, they probably didn't touch your site, thus possibly lowering your ROI. Plus, you're not getting your traffic through pop ups, spyware, or unsoliticed email, so the ROI should be considerably better. I've seen opt-in email campaigns where the cost per aquisition was actually 1000 times higher than the rate you're paying.
The point is... it appears that they have to have $750 or more to get the job done for you. It appears that they're doing their job. Your ROI may not be great, but it's not terrible, and the lifetime value of your customer is probably much greater than the amount you're spending. With that in mind, you might not be a flaming advocate of their business, but with those results it's probably not fair to "recommend against doing business" with these people. It sound like they've put in a good effort for a fair price with a decent ROI.
In regards to ROI.. you should also consider name aquisition. Do you have a form to get leads on your site? Sometimes it takes more than 1 impression for people to be sold. Especially if the landing page is the site in your profile. Some people would think that it's either too good to be true, or too difficult to actually do themselves. With repetative impressions you could probably break down those notions and increase your ROI.
Just a friendly message. Like I said.. I don't represent traffic logic, and in fact in many ways I compete against them. But ... regardless of the content of the other post on this board, if they are doing what they promised, I think they deserve a fair review.
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caribou
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 03/16/2004 08:44 am
Traffic Logic will be all nice up front, but if you ever start to dispute their work, or complain that they have missed yet another milestone that they promised, be prepared to have a fight on your hands.
We got our money back because they failed to deliver content on time and we filed a dispute with our credit card company. However, we were also told that because they had developed the content on our behalf and we were backing out, they were going to market the content we helped them deliver to our competitors.
That means that all the key words we helped them research as being effective, compared with the generic stuff they came up with to drive traffic (and clicks), are now being offered to our competitors.
I read somewhere else in the thread that once you sign up with them and your contract term expires, if you don't renew that they will do the same thing.
All I can say is, if you deal with Traffic Logic, go in with your eyes open!
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MerchantPrince
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
# Posts: 24
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Posted: 03/16/2004 09:41 am
Yeah, I'm beginning to see the darker side of Trafficlogic now. Their traffic has really dropped off. After the most recent search engine upheavals this past week, their portal site traffic is fading fast - and there was never that much to begn with!
I called Matt Tuens, their sales guy last week and complained that the amounts I was paying out did not even come close to the revenue they were bringing in and that I wanted a "deposit holiday" this month as per our initial agreement.
I'd been very upfront with them from the beginning that I did not want to be out more than $500 in expenses at any time on this test campaign. I can't blindly trust companies I'm just starting out with and thus am always looking to minimize my risks until I can see some real results.
Now he claims that conversation with me and our agreement are a mystery to him. That really sets off all the warning bells. We've all been down this path with crooked companies who say one thing on the pre-sale, then fight like demons later on in order to keep stealing money.
Traffiiclogic just debited another $250 yesterday and I'm now out $1000, with only $200 spent in clicks. I'm really getting fed up with them and will soon be demanding a refund.
And I could care less if they sell that traffic to my competitiors. It was never more than a second-tier search engine's worth of traffic volume to begin with.
[ Message was edited by: MerchantPrince 03/17/2004 06:47 am ]
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kjunge
Joined: Jan 09, 2004
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 03/22/2004 07:39 am
TrafficLogic is a company that I would definitely recommend people stay away from. One of my business partners paid them the $7500 up front more then six months ago as a prepay for hits to our website. TrafficLogic did not deliver the minimum number of hits as stated in our contract with them. Now they refuse to give the refund as promised in the contract. The main reason we agreed to do business with them was the guarantee which they flat out refuse to honor at this point.
Their clean Better Business record as claimed in earlier posts here will soon be a thing of the past.
Will let you all know if they end up honoring the contract, or not.
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Celicaphile
Joined: Mar 08, 2002
# Posts: 43
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Posted: 03/23/2004 02:04 pm
BBB is a joke! Do not depend on their records - they're paid for. If BBB took complaints seriously and gave their own paying members bad marks, they probably wouldn't remain paying members...
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nickn0783
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
# Posts: 1371
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Posted: 03/24/2004 02:58 am
what an interesting read. Cant beat a good heated debate!
there is a lesson to be learnt: dont mess with Janet boys and girls 
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vorapolpanya
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 04/02/2004 10:34 am
very interesting information. thanks much for posting. if i don't read this thread i probably try the service.
just got an email from one of their network site , i belive they are now trying to get a new customer under a name , keywordconversions.com. i jsut got an email from them.
once i inquire about the service , they are infact trafficlogic.
just wanna share
[ Message was edited by: vorapolpanya 04/02/2004 10:51 am ]
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skiguide
Joined: Feb 02, 2001
# Posts: 761
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Posted: 04/02/2004 02:04 pm
Keywordconversions.com has in fact has been sending around quite the spam offer claiming to make a unique directory for a given category, that I would personally not recommend.
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d_stew
Joined: Apr 12, 2004
# Posts: 128
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Posted: 04/29/2004 02:26 pm
sometimes I just sit back, shake my head and chuckle.
Anyone seen Steve Lazuka lately?
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greenleaves
Joined: Mar 21, 2002
# Posts: 720
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Posted: 04/29/2004 03:01 pm
I think trafficscour.com is similar or the same thing...
I didn't check 'em, but keep receiving their SPAM. I think it is simmilar. Anyway, I believe it is a SCAM, but didn't take the time to confirm it.
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