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page rank 3 and page rank 5 for sale (In: I Want to Sell My Website)
Redirection of a page (In: Coding & Databases - PHP, ASP, Perl, etc.)
Can someone explain Social Bookmarking (In: General Search Engine Optimization)
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 10:15
okay...
lets take the following example. This is a bit complicated to explain so i'll do my best.
E-commerce site.
We have a main index page themed for the main terms of 'garden' , 'reclaimed' and 'cast iron'. Subsequent Category and Product pages are themed derivatives of these eg 'cast iron garden benches' or 'reclaimed lampposts'.
What was originally happening was that i was noticing google was favouring the index page over the category pages in the serps for any given category keyword, even though there may have been only one or two mentions of the term on the index page. The category pages were fully optimised for the term with Keyword density, titles, page titles, tags, content, images etc all far far better than on the index page. And yes, all pages were indexed, and yes i know that most IBL's will be to the index , but were talking low ibl's overall anyway.
Yet, google was seeing one or two mentions of the term on the index page, listing it, and completely ignoring the main optimised page, with the result of low positioning in the serps. Its like it was saying 'i've found that term on the index page, i dont need to reference any other pages'.
So, before i can go any deeper into this and onto the next question. Why would google do this? Has anyone else noticed it? The page was clearly not themed nor optimised fore that term, yet it was placed well in the serps for it.
Is it possible that what may be happening is that google was seeing the optimised page for the reference (giving the listing result), yet returning the index page in the serps simply becuase that term was also there, and the index page is better PR or something?
I've since fixed it, but thats another post, and will lead onto another question 
[ Message was edited by: freeflyer 01/03/2008 02:27 am ]
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 10:26
Google doesn't care if you've 'optimised' or not.
What Google does is match the search term to the pages containing that term.
A page with higher page rank will be more likely to appear - and many other factors come into play.
Rather than trying to 'force' Google to choose the page you want it to choose - which rarely works and may have many undesired side effects - it's much, much better, generally, to allow visitors to arrive any which way ... just be sure the site is friendly and there's good navigation to steer folk where you want them to go.
Remember Quadrille's Oft-Quoted 19th Law
http://www.domain.com/ is the single most important URL on your site.
Using it enables people to find your site quickly and easily, and will usually get much better search engine placement than any other URL, for several reasons, but mainly because it will always be the page most linked-to.
So it makes sense to use that fact, rather than trying to promote a deep page in its place.
Point is, whether you have done so deliberately or not, you have already 'optimised' your index page, unless you've specifically tried NOT to get links there. Which would, of course, be SEO suicide.
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 10:45
okay.. not really what i asked.. i was asking for the technical process, but i'll answer anyway.
Google doesn't care if you've 'optimised' or not.
What Google does is match the search term to the pages containing that term.
. Okay first off, no it doesnt appear to be. Thats my point if you read my footnote at the bottom of this post. Secondly, when you purposely theme a page or site for that term, that process is generally termed optimising is it not?
Rather than trying to 'force' Google to choose the page you want it to choose - which rarely works and may have many undesired side effects - it's much, much better, generally, to allow visitors to arrive any which way ... just be sure the site is friendly and there's good navigation to steer folk where you want them to go.
Okay, what about landing pages and bounce rates? the theory that the best page to land on is the page that reflects the term that visitors are searching for? If i was a visitor searching for a aluminium extension ladder for example, and i landed on a home page of a ladder site, i certainly wouldnt want to trawl through five pages before i got to my product. I'd simple leave. Dedicated landing pages keep visitors on your site and reduce bounce rates.
Using it enables people to find your site quickly and easily, and will usually get much better search engine placement than any other URL, for several reasons, but mainly because it will always be the page most linked-to.
okay.. so lets say your home page reflects all categories terms ... What you have then is a page full or liberally thinned out terms, and not a page that reflects anything in particular. Thats what the category pages are, hence why i'd want to get them listed above the index page for their own term.
Point is, whether you have done so deliberately or not, you have already 'optimised' your index page, unless you've specifically tried NOT to get links there. Which would, of course, be SEO suicide.
i've de-optimised (if such a word exsists) my index page for my category terms, and instead themed it for the generic terms of reclaimed, cast iron and garden. Then i fully optimised my category pages. What happened is that the category pages were being returned correctly ABOVE the previous serp of the index page, even though they had less IBL's. Why? because that page was more relevant to the term.
This is my point, and my original question. If a deep page is more relevant to the search term, why does google favour and return the index page when it may only contain ONE reference to that term in it? It seems as if google is returning the index page, yet using the deeper page for the keyterm match?.
Let me give you an example. My index page has one mention of 'lampposts' in it, in the copy. Nothing else anywhere on the page references that term. Yet it is listed third in the serps for the term 'cast iron lampposts', with my deeper fully themed page listed below it. If i remove the lamppost term from the index page so it is nowhere to be seen, then and only then is my deeper page is returned, yet it is fifth instead of third.
Thats really my question.. why? why is a page with only one mention of a term being returned instead of a fully themed page? and has anyone else noticed this?
[ Message was edited by: freeflyer 01/03/2008 03:14 am ]
[ Message was edited by: freeflyer 01/03/2008 03:52 am ]
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10465
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 13:13
There is a glitch in the way Google does some things. They quite often return a URL that is one click away from the page that actually contains the content. I see that quite a lot. Some have reported that anchor text may have some influence on things.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. The click from the SERP gets the visitor to your site, not some other site. Once on your site, make it very clear where all the links will take you.
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 14:32
ah okay thanks. Its a shame it cant be fixed.. like i say the only real way to get rid of the problem seems to be remove the phrase completely from the index page, whereby only the targeted page is returned.. but as i say this is at the expense of one or two placements in the serps.
googles annoying
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 15:30
"okay.. not really what i asked.. i was asking for the technical process"
Actually, it was EXACTLY what you asked - though maybe not what you INTENDED to ask
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freeflyer
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
# Posts: 211
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 16:42
well.. i'm sure you're right. I dont know myself very well.. you must know me better than i do i guess ...
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Quadrille
Joined: Nov 15, 2000
# Posts: 1064
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Posted: 2008-Jan-03 17:08
No - I don't know you at all.
I just read what you write, and try to help 
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