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    lawgal
    Joined: Jul 06, 2001
    # Posts: 128

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-14 12:33
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    Sorry again in advance... I checked this forum for old strings on this, but didn't find my answer. When I check my link popularity on Google, it comes up as 22 links. They are individual links from related sites. I checked some of my "competitor"s sites and they have like 500 links, 460 of which are internal. I mean, they are listed as links, but they are pages from the same site that I entered. Why do I not have pages that come up that way? Do those pages have any bearing on link popularity?

    Thanks so much!!!



    lawgal
    Joined: Jul 06, 2001
    # Posts: 128

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-16 15:25
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    Thanks so much for the input... I have to say that I am totally stumped on why my rank is so poor on Google. When you enter a search for "law books" in google, site "A" is ranked first. Google says that that "A" has 877 linking sites (like 85% of the sites that are listed as linking to "A" are actually from within "A"). Then "B" is second with 149 listed links (also many are from "B"). Third is "C" with 21, "D" with 10, "E" with 28 and so on in really random numbers going up and down like crazy... My site (which google claims has 22 links) is NOT LISTED AT ALL when you search the 50 pages of listings under "law books" but is listed on page 3 (although it is a very LAME looking listing) when I enter "used law books". Why in the world would it not come up under Law Books but come up under Used Law Books??? Please, I am dying here!!! Why in the world am I having such a hard time with Google? I get almost no traffic from them (which is understandable considering my lame presence in Google). I know that everyone says how crucial Google traffic is... What can I do to fix this???



    Winooski
    Joined: Sep 11, 2000
    # Posts: 52

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-16 16:08
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    lawgal, without knowing the extent to which your site is maximally optimized or the degree of competition of your keywords, it's difficult for anyone to assess what's really going on with your site and the Google rankings.

    That having been said, my personal experience with Google has taught me that, per their current algorithm and caeteris paribus (you said it was a law site...), internal linking is rewarded. If your site has a strong keyword theme (i.e., the target keywords are closely related and appear on multiple pages throughout the site), then the more internal links, the better. You can try to crosslink pages just within the text of each page, and/or you can utilize hidden links.

    I know it's often strongly warned against, but "invisible" links using appropriately disguised 1-pixel images seem to work fine for reinforcing strong internal linking. By "appropriately disguised" I mean no HEIGHT and WIDTH attributes, names like "button-graphic-xyz" (as opposed to "invisible-1-pixel"), and even using a few different names so the Google indexing program doesn't see 30 graphics in a row, each entitled "link-graphic-1"...

    If you don't want to risk the old 1-pixel GIF tactic, my understanding is that having just regular A HREF tags linking on nothing at all work fine as well, e.g.,

    <A HREF="internal-link-49.html"></A>
    <A HREF="internal-link-50.html"></A>
    <A HREF="internal-link-51.html"></A>
    Etc. ...

    Another thing: the internal linking seems to work for clients' sites because of very consonant themeing, i.e., the keywords are all very related. In other words, I'm not sure that strong internal linking would do you much good if there wasn't some relationship among all the target keywords.

    For example, if you're targeting keywords like "legal advice", "law advice", "lawyer help", "litigation information", I would guess that these terms are all considered closely related by Google's vector database. Therefore, crosslinking among four pages targeting these terms would reinforce the theme. On the other hand, if you were targeting "legal advice", "cheap lawyers", "bail money", and "appeals information", crosslinking among four pages targeting these terms wouldn't support any one theme too strongly (other than a vague "law" theme, I guess), so in such a circumstance crosslinking might not improve these pages' rankings. Again, I say "might not" because my experience has been with client sites with what appears to be strong themes, so the target keywords seemed somewhat closely related.

    Good luck!



    Robert Charlton
    Joined: May 28, 1999
    # Posts: 615

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-16 23:16
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    >>Why in the world would it not come up under Law Books but come up under Used Law Books<<

    This isn't really a linking question... it's a content question.

    I'm surprised that your site comes up under <used law books.> It doesn't come under <law books> because the phrase isn't used either in your site title or on the page. You do have <used case books> in your title and <law> on the page, which is probably why Google is picking you up at all. <Law books> is probably competitive enough that you've got to do a better job of optimizing your page.

    Also, you have a framed site, and you've not put any searchable content in your noframes area. Check the frames forum on this, and do some reading either here or on Search Engine Watch on basic page optimizing.

    [This message has been edited by Robert Charlton (edited 07-16-2001).]



    lawgal
    Joined: Jul 06, 2001
    # Posts: 128

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-18 00:45
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    Thanks Winooski and Robert. I have changed my title and tweaked a bit of my content so maybe that will help. I did go to the frames forum and asked them about my frames problem... How do frames interfere with the Googlebot read? I'm not sure I understand why if 1) my title is good 2) content is good and 3) have good link popularity, frames would sabotage me in Google.



    Winooski
    Joined: Sep 11, 2000
    # Posts: 52

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-18 15:24
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    lawgal, please see http://www.searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/frames.html for a good explanation of the issues involving frames and potential workarounds.

    Also, per Search Engine Watch's "Search Engine Features for Webmasters" table at http://www.searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/features.html, Danny Sullivan suggests that FAST and Excite are the only two of the top-tier SEs which can't spider through the FRAMES tags. Regardless, it's long been believed by SEO pros that Web developers should avoid implementing frames unless absolutely necessary (see Frederick Marckini's Search Engine Positioning, P.169, Wordware Publishing, Inc.), and my understanding is that this is still the commonly-accepted recommendation.



    basicben
    Joined: Jun 19, 1999
    # Posts: 47

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-19 12:39
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    If the hypertext links pointing to your site have the term "law books" in them instead of "used law books", you will like your ranking under "law books" a lot more.

    I would also agree that you should lose the frames.



    Eathan
    Joined: Eons Ago
    # Posts: 1362

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-20 06:51
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    The frames are only hurting you. I'll add my voice to the chorus suggesting you remove them. It will improve your site's performance.

    I disagree with Winooski about hidden links however. I think they, like other tricks, should be avoided, but that's another discussion. Good luck!

    [This message has been edited by Eathan (edited 07-19-2001).]



    lawgal
    Joined: Jul 06, 2001
    # Posts: 128

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-21 02:38
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    OK... the frames are gone Is it too late? I read the other string which said that "the google dance has begun". I was listed in Google in January, but have had the most lousy results... Like I said, I get like 3% of my traffic from Google and I have no idea how those guys find me in there. I have to REALLY search to find MYSELF in Google!!! I have been checking www2, www3, .it and .de and don't see any change yet. Am I just not checking at the right times???



    Robert Charlton
    Joined: May 28, 1999
    # Posts: 615

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-21 18:53
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    Lawgal - I just clicked on the link to your site to see what changes you've made, and I noticed a redirect from your index page to a classifieds page. Redirects are big no-nos... will get you banned from some engines. I would remove it quickly.



    joshny
    Joined: Jul 23, 1999
    # Posts: 509

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    Posted: 2001-Jul-21 13:46
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    I like the change. I noticed you have two title tags. You can only have one. Dump the first one.


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