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Hampstead
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 2015
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Posted: 2007-Jun-19 05:34
>> getting into the threads and posting, asking questions, generally encouraging more participation.
That's a good point actually. many of the mods simply answer a question abruptly and offer no supporting evidence or explanation for beginners.
I can't remember the last time a question was asked or a debate started by mods - with a couple of exceptions of course. Perhaps it is beneath the mods to ask for any help? They will tell you that it is a constant learning curve in the SEO world, but where do they pose conundrums or debate hot topics? Not here.
PS - please ex use spelling. I'm working on my PDA with a hangover.
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-19 22:37
I don't believe that is the job of a moderator. And in fact, they have started many threads and discussions. Lets face it, the bulk of the activity IS the mods. A forum needs active users and the postings need to come from the community, not the mods. They should be keeping it clean, within the TOS and keep dicsussions headed in a positive direction, as well as make sure that the contributed information in correct and not misleading.
I commend the moderators for their dedication.
tale a look at how they are doing things at smallbusinessbrief
and
bumpzee
The good news is that this site still has users, people are still joinning and posting are still being made. It is not dead yet and there is a community to work with to build this up again.
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-19 22:41
BTW, I attended a Internet marketing seminar today and I memtioned the forum. Both newbies to SEO and experienced SEO were there. I mentioned the forum. The number one reaction was
Its to hard to find information here, there is too much misinformation, there is to much information, and they left because they couldn't discern what was good or bad info.
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g1smd
Staff
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10438
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 01:59
>> misinformation, <<
Are these people that have left in the last few months, or back 4 or 5 or more years ago?
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 02:45
recently. I have found that people want instant information and they don't want to dig for it. I do the same thing. On one of the hosting companies I use, all of the cust serv is done through a forum. If you ask a question that has already been answered in their 400K posts they won't answer it again. Not that you do that here. But I don't have time to spend hours digging for an answer.
One thing that people have done throughout time is follow a leader. There is no leader, no star, no single identifiable personality that is associated with this forum. Back in the beginning this site had a leader, Jim. He was the guru to follow and the personality of the sites. Most people here do not know the history of this forum. All they know is "today"
Perhaps it is time for a new leader or a personality to emerge.
we all know what the Jenn Laycock has done for searchengineguide and how it has worked for her.
the forum is the bus, who will be the driver
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ClickIt
Joined: Jul 31, 2000
# Posts: 742
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 03:25
The information contained within the forums is the driver. The format of the forums is just a vessel used to convey the information. Although I agree with you MJ, SEF may well benefit from a different way of uncovering the hard learned lessons contained within.
Who would curate the collection to pull out the 'best ideas/practices' of SEF? That sounds like a pretty large project with a (not-less-than) a few good ways to go about accomplishing the goal. So, do we get the Mods to curate the years and years worth of posting info within SEF? That seems like a project that would burn up a few gazillion man hours of billable time. Who has the budget for that? Or convert to a Digg type of system that allows users to 'vote' for the better ideas contained within the forums? Would such a system be gamed by drive-by spammers or otherwise abused? Do the best ideas actually float to the top? Or, simply, do timely ideas float up? Does crap really sink?
Or, as MJ suggests, would instituting a cult of personality into SEF be worthwhile? (Assuming, of course, that the late Jim could - and should - be replaced.)
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 04:04
we can't replace Jim. did we replace George Washington, Abe Lincoln or John Wayne. NO! Another charismatic and commanding personality came along and created their own position in society while not replacing or minimizing the accomplishments or the role of their predecessors. Jim can be cannonized while a new personality or leader arises.
So this site is an immense catalog of information. What your suggesting is a way to retrieve the information from the catalog and a way to rate the information as to its validity.
So the accumulated knowledge of the users of the site is in a database, correct? That info can be pulled ten different ways from sunday. Then its sorting, rating, formatting, and recataloging.
There are content management systems that have components that could add security, capthas, digg voting type systems ratings, cataloging options and more in minutes with little or more scripting.
don't look at the process of the change or the difficulty, concentrate on the positive results of the changes
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langardmicro
Joined: Mar 12, 2007
# Posts: 76
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 11:45
While it's true that newbies are always looking for fast answers and fast results, it would be a shame to "cocacolanize" the SEF to meet the demands of surfers who won't be bothered to even search the archives.
And although it may be impressive to attach a symbol, a myth, a legend or a leader to any blog/forum/bboard, it doesn't invest the site with any credibility at all -- except in the minds of those who insist upon having something to blame/attach their failure/success to.
No, the word "content" probably appears more in this database than any other and that's what the SEF offers more than any of the newer forums out there.
The same questions, on the same topics that were beat to death here three years ago are currently being re-hashed in a hundred other forums.
And are the responses new? More insightful? More poignant and up-to-speed? No.
This "value is perception on the Web" thing is overrated. Installing Paris Hilton and Tom Cruse as moderators in here wouldn't do anything except drive the traffic stats up for awhile ... until somebody figured out they don't know Jack about SEO work.
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Hampstead
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 2015
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Posted: 2007-Jun-20 13:53
That's got it all going again 
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beth_lk
Staff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 1247
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 06:15
I have been watching this thread.... and have debated if I should or should not post, and as you can see I chose to post.
As a green horn to many many areas of the subjects here, I still say that this site is where I come to for 99% of my knowledge.
I started way back when Jim was around and he even answered a few of my questions via email ( what an honor ! ) - I have watched the changes as they happened.
Frankly I don't know how the Mods here keep going - the same old ( mostly ) same old questions are asked over and over again - yes at times even by me !
Yet the questions are responded to, even if it is just a short - look here ( link included ) type of response.
If I want to know something, I come here and I DIG around and if I still don't understand it, I post.
I guess my long winded point is. I see so many people join post 1 question, and their question its self shows they did not even look around here to try to find it themselves.
Too many people want spoon fed and they want to know where the magic bullet is.
As for not wanting to dig around...... oh my goodness ! I have to say that while digging around for a specific question I always end up learning SO much more, as of the wealth of info that is here. I for one love to dig around, its like getting a free education here 
If you want to know it - its probably here and if its not, and you ask someone will help you.
If I were to be asked what changes I think would benefit the site as well as the members I would say:
.. .more updates with articles/blogs/rss etc. examples as to what is happening. Something like a main page where one could get to get the headlines of the latest changes and events of the world of web design and SEO and such.
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 14:47
excellent and your changes fit in perfectly with my recommendations and is an excellent post.
But....
If you were afraid to post to the thread or forum, maybe others were/are to.
why would you be afraid to post? as this is a forum, that needs to be addressed to get the activity started again.
[ Message was edited by: mj1256 06/21/2007 12:34 pm ]
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formerskeptic
Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 301
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 15:12
Installing Paris Hilton and Tom Cruse as moderators...
Newbie: Hello all. I was wondering, do I need meta tags in my pages to get good rankings?
Paris: Well, it like, totally depends. What color are your links?
Newbie: Ummm...blue!
Paris: Blue! What kind of blue? Is it sky blue, baby blue, navy...?
Newbie: Just your regular blue link. What does that have to do with anything?
Paris: Like everything! I mean, the engines like totally prefer pages with
matching colors and stuff! And it all comes down to what colors match with what?
So with or without meta tags is like totally irrelevant!
Newbie: Ooook. Thankyou?
Paris: Ur like, totally welcome
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1462
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 15:47
hahaha love the Paris Hilton sketch...so when she signing up? lol
Beth, it's always nerve racking posting ideas incase people mock you for them, but that'll never happen here
Now for the ultimate question, mods and admins, can/could some/all of the above be done?
And Philh, do you have any suggestions to help better this place?
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 16:10
Just to jump in for a second, notes are being taken and discussions are happening.
No promises on time lines or what'll be looked at, as there are more than just a couple of things to consider here, but the ideas in here are not falling on blind eyes.
Duane
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mj1256
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 918
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Posted: 2007-Jun-21 20:36
as paris would say
thats hot!
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Mark Wolk
Joined: Sep 19, 1999
# Posts: 660
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Posted: 2007-Jun-22 05:30
One of the reasons why I have been coming to this forum since last century (!) is the little noise we have here. OK, maybe not as many theories and experiments are carried out here as elsewhere, but the little information we have has always been spot-on.
Most other forums have endless threads that go in all directions or nowhere and end up being of little use.
I think that the conciseness and reliability of this forum have always been its main advantages, and I hope that any change will perpetuate these vital qualities, which make this forum unique.
Everyone understands how time-consuming it is to maintain a forum like this one. It would seem to me that an increase in advertising revenue would not be too difficult to achieve (i.e. 3 AdSense blocks on thread pages like this one, including inside forum messages, insead of one currently) and maybe the revenue generated would be sufficient to cover the salaries of some part-time moderators who could work on establishing more traffic, tidying up threads and existing information.
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beth_lk
Staff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 1247
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Posted: 2007-Jun-22 06:15
why would you be afraid to post?
FYI - I did not say I was afraid. I said "I debated if to post or not". I just was not sure if I wanted "in" on this specific conversation or subject.... no biggie.
Beth
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formerskeptic
Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 301
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Posted: 2007-Jun-22 07:09
so when she signing up?
Soon after she's settled down (at the salon) from her ordeal (at the joint).
[ Message was edited by: formerskeptic 06/22/2007 04:06 am ]
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langardmicro
Joined: Mar 12, 2007
# Posts: 76
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Posted: 2007-Jun-23 09:35
I agree with beth_lk about the importance of keeping things fresh and poignant somehow, even if it means some of the Mods starting an informative/inquisitive thread daily in the popular sections of the SEF to accomplish that.
What the SEF has lost is a PROGRESSIVE identity. There's a tendency in forums that have been around as long as this one, for Mods to adopt a simple Problem-Solver mentality. You-define-the-problem-I'll-answer-it thinking.
Without problems, Problem-Solvers sit on their hands.
My point is that there are a TON of problems out there just waiting to occur and the SEF should ramp up to them now, before they happen, and really generate some action in here.
That's what the forum possessed originally: That 'Bleeding Edge' mentality that hundreds of SEOs monitored closely. This used to be a place where you could almost sense the impending doom of Alta Vista before it happened, for instance.
So I say toss out the 'don't investigate a murder until somebody gets killed' mentality and crank out some visionary stuff to get peoples SEO juice moving again. Something controversial, something wierd, something blasphemous, whatever.
When the Web was new... Wait a minute, that sounds like David Copperfield for Christ's sake. Long ago... Nah, Star Wars. Anyway, even though the SEO battle lines have been drawn over the last several years doesn't mean SEO work is less challenging at all.
In fact with India, China, Malaysia and Russia on board, this stuff is just getting interesting.
There's my $.02.
Post Script:
In fact, I'll start a buzz in the Google forum now.
[ Message was edited by: langardmicro 06/23/2007 01:51 am ]
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2007-Jun-23 13:36
There's a tendency in forums that have been around as long as this one, for Mods to adopt a simple Problem-Solver mentality. You-define-the-problem-I'll-answer-it thinking.
Without problems, Problem-Solvers sit on their hands.
My point is that there are a TON of problems out there just waiting to occur and the SEF should ramp up to them now, before they happen, and really generate some action in here.
I'm going to jump in here and point out that ALL members at SEF can participate in this manner. This is NOT simply a situation the Mods should manage - a Mods job is to keep the joint clean and orderly, first and foremost. For example - as I type, I am the only member here...with 361 guests floating around - GUESTS NEED TO JOIN AND PARTICIPATE, PLEASE.
Additionally, I make this request to users to be more active, because the Mods volunteer time here. The rest of our time is usually spent running our own businesses or doing work for clients - I'm not trying to say anyone else has endless amounts of time to spend here, but I think the Mods do what they can already, so I encourage everyone to spend the time if they have it.
Something controversial, something wierd, something blasphemous, whatever.
Controversial - Larry Page was recently spotted running around the Googleplex in a Speedo...
Weird - three ex-execs from Yahoo were following him with bowls of melted butter...
Blamsphemous - Sergei Brin still uses the Yahoo directory!
Whatever - my dogs are asleep...
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