SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3600
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Posted: 2006-May-01 18:02
Full article here at the New York Times
Apparently, MS's newest toy defaults to MSN's own search engine - go figure. Google doesn't think this is fair (again, go figure) and has spoken with the Dept. of Justice and the European Commission, both of whom have investigated Mr. Gates' group of merry bandits before for anti-trust and anti-competition cocnerns.
MS says there's no foul here because the application allows users to change their default setting.
I say Microsoft should just crack open the freakin' bank and buy Google outright - they have the money to do so. And, the faster they do it, the quicker we can all get to the other side after the DoJ steps in and makes MS spin their search arm off into another company... 
Seriously, this whole thing is like running to the teacher at recess because "Jimmy took my GI Joe"...
Geez, this IS competition. This IS what companies do to stay in front. Not sure who's worse, MS for (fill in the blank) or Google for whining about it......(maybe I do know..., MS for sure... )
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visitor
Staff
Joined: Sep 06, 2001
# Posts: 601
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Posted: 2006-May-01 19:37
Long Live The Microsoft!! 
MS never have hid behind some holistic-appearance intentions (::cough:: ::cough:: Google) - MS have always made it clear that it's all about the business.
From the article..
Google contends that this puts Microsoft in a position to unfairly grab Web traffic and advertising dollars from its competitors.
At least it's no longer about the 'quality' of the search for the people and blah blah blah
We don't think it's right for Microsoft to just set the default to MSN. We believe users should choose
For one, MS should be able to cross promote their own *beep* products...for how long we are expected to carebear people's laziness to adopt and learn (aka even if you didn't know how to change your default homepage, anyone wants to know can learn how to).
It's quite comical to see Google cryin' about the whole dealie...but there will be many people carebearin' Google of course...cuz it's a popular trend to dislike Microsoft :P
People will continue to choose what they prefer - all these lobbyin' and politics are cute and all, but people/consumers are pretty dang cold when it comes to choice(s)...I am not going to use an inferior product (in my mind) over a superior product (in my mind)...it's a simple logic
We will continue to make our choices...just as we did with FireFox (reference from the article)
Cry me a river plz.../pointat Google.../laugh
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gamiziuk
Joined: Aug 23, 2000
# Posts: 630
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Posted: 2006-May-02 14:44
I thought all versions of IE default to the MSN search engine? I just install the Google toolbar and don't lose sleep over it.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-May-02 19:22
This is too funny - as though MS would default to anything else. Maybe Google just sees an oportunity for free publicity? Surely they don't think this crying will actually fly.
Allowing Internet users to "choose" would obviously benefit Google because they are the best known. Not specifically offering them a choice they don't know they have benefits MS.
Unlike Google with their "don't be evil" slogan (doth they protest too much?) MS has never claimed nor acted any way other than ruthlessly competitive.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3734
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Posted: 2006-May-14 09:02
MS has never claimed nor acted any way other than ruthlessly competitive.
Having the browser default to MSN is not competitive, it's an unfair advantage due to MS controlling the OS and browser market. There's no competition when the company doing the deed controls the market.
There's no good solution under the current MS OS setup and naturally MS is going to promote MS products and Web properties. They are not obligated to promote Google. MS controls the OS market and thus basically has a monopoly as there are no other real alternatives (and NO, Linux and other similar varieties are not real alternatives to the MS OS as they are unable to run the applications that many of us need to use).
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-May-14 23:13
Perhaps "ruthlessly competitive" wasn't really strong enough wording for what Microsoft does to maintain their monopoly. We have them to thank for WHY there are few alternatives.
A few things like all of your non-MS programs becoming unusable every time you upgrade your operating sytem contribute to that situation. How many times will PC owners upgrade all of their non-MS software before they just go along with the MS program?
And since there are so few alternatives most software developers only develop versions that run on Windows. Technology may change that situation in the future, but for now if you have a program with no non-MS alternative you're rather stuck.
The only way this is likely to change is when people vote with their pocketbooks. Sadly, most will not invest the time and effort required to use something else. We'll have to hope for a simple solution from a brilliant mind somewhere.
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anewvision
Joined: Feb 13, 2001
# Posts: 100
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Posted: 2006-May-22 22:32
Whenever I install Netscape, guess what happens?
It defaults to Netscape Search Engine - WOW!
Maybe Google needs to develope its own browser, so it can default to itself and stop complaining.
IMO
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-May-23 04:44
Not a bad idea - if we are only going to have huge monopolies to choose from let's have at least two to compete with each other.
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dudibob
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1459
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Posted: 2006-May-23 14:14
lol, I thought that's the plan Google has, first using the free WIfI to a US town as a test.
Once that shows a thumbs up, Google will release there own browsers (or laptops, PC's!?) with the ability to connect remotely to the WIFI system...possibly
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3734
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Posted: 2006-Jun-02 08:07
What would be cool is if someone could make LINUX have a user interface like Windows/Mac. Then perhaps LINUX could better give MS some competition. But alas as someone else said, people simply only program applications for MS because other OS's are not popular enough to make applications for, so again we are right back to MS monopolizing the OS and thus the browser used with MSN as the default search engine.
There is no easy way to de-throne MS when they own the OS that runs most of the PC's and they dictate the default browser that computer makers are allowed to install (remember when Compaq (think it was them) wanted to use netscape over MSIE 4.0 and MS threatened that if they swapped the browsers, Compaq could not use the MS OS? If that's not monopolization, I do not know what is. There was no other useful OS to use on Compaq computers at that time and that's still fairly true today as well--who's gonna buy a puter that won't run software they need to use?)
Imagine if Ford had a monopoly on tires and also required all other car makers to use their car engines? You couldn't use a Chevy engine or a Honda engine and do without the tires for your car--You'd be forced to also use the Ford engine out of necessity. Competitive? I think not.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-Jun-02 08:14
MS has gotten away with far more than just that. They've got the connections. Google must have heard anewvision's thoughts as they're publicly stating they are NOT planning to develop their own browser. Time will tell.
I'm so sick of problems with MS I'm seriously considering switching to Linux or even a Mac. Might have to keep a Windows based PC though as MSN's AdCenter PPC won't let you use anything but I.E.
The other reason I'm thinking about going that way is this privacy thing is getting totally out of hand. I'm going to order a used copy of 1984 and a few other classics from half.com to refresh my memory of the details.
Volunteering to be constantly trackable by everything from your phone to your car to every product you buy at any store is getting a little too Gestapo for me.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3734
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Posted: 2006-Jun-02 08:42
Can't use Mozilla with MSN's AdCenter PPC? Huh??
THAT'S CRAZY!!!
Dang-gitty-dang-dang!!
flyingrose said:
Volunteering to be constantly trackable by everything from your phone to your car to every product you buy at any store is getting a little too Gestapo for me.
I hear you there, loud and clear.
I often wonder how much info WinXP SP2 is sending MS of my computer's stats, etc. info about my PC use. Don't like all these little subtle updates about checking up on me and my machine 'cause I don't know exactly what is being transferred to MS, not that I have anything to fear in the way of legal stuff, but who knows for sure what yah might get into trouble for.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-Jun-02 21:07
I don't know what Windows XP-Pro is doing but any time I leave my PC up for any extended period of time it gets slower and slower. I've run every trojan, virus, PC checker I can find and they come up zilch.
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Prowler
Staff
Joined: Aug 14, 2000
# Posts: 1788
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Posted: 2006-Jun-03 07:33
Size matters to a great extent when it comes to doing unfair business practices. MS has been on the scene for quite a long time and to be fair - they made no bones about it. Google started out with a - 'do No Evil' motto until they became a giant.
Peter's Principle states that "successful members of a hierarchical organization are eventually promoted to their highest level of competence, after which further promotion raises them to a level at which they are not competent."
May be we modify the principle here for organizations - Every organization rises to the level of resorting to unfair business practices.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3734
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Posted: 2006-Jun-03 08:31
Every organization rises to the level of resorting to unfair business practices.
It nearly seems that way for a very large part.
Something I've noticed for quite some time is that once a big business reaches a certain critical size it becomes a gigantic business and it continues to purpetually fuel itself because it has so much resorces at it's disposal that small businesses find it hard to compete with—sometimes nearly impossible to compete with unless the mega-business decides to really mess up big time. That opportunity to knock them down doesn't come around very often for the small businesses to be able to compete effectively.
It's probably one reason why Adobe (and the like) is king now in certain program applications because there are not too many other apps out there that can do what they do--they got a huge team. Of course MS could attempt to knock them down too if they really desired to do so.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2006-Jun-03 22:18
I suspect they started out that way. As I have mentioned before, the truly honest folk I know would never think to have a motto like "don't be evil" because evil isn't part of their thoughts.
Google is better than MS at appearing to be benevolent so far. The amount of information they are accumulating is dangerous to privacy and the potential for negatively applied uses is huge.
As we have all heard before, "Power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimately."
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3734
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Posted: 2006-Jun-05 10:53
flyingrose, yep, yer right
It's tempting for huge companies to abuse power when they have it. The line between using power in smart and ethical ways and abuse of power is blurry.
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