SEF
Search Engine Forums
Helping to make the Web - Since 1998
|
Virtual Promote Member Spotlight
Successful Online Stores
We create profitable online businesses. Improve yours! (OAC) |
| . | ||||||||||
| Forums | Index | Active Topics | New Topics | My Topics | Search | My Profile | Register | Inbox | Rules & TOS | |
| . | ||||||||||
Email this thread to a friend
| 1 2 Next Page >> | Previous Topic Next Topic |
| Member | Message |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 01:02 pm
We started a thread in another topic here [link] Basically the topic is this "does an SEO'er need to know how to code, program in various languages, differect server setups and server administration and other tech skills. I have PHP,MySQL,Apache and Linux skills as well as HTML, XHTML, XML and CSS skills. I consider myself an advanced user of dotnetnuke and joomla CMS. I also have administered a .net environment and IIS windows 2003 server. I'm under the impression that some pros do not have these skills and are very successful at SEO-SEM So how about it, what are the skills of the pros here? |
 | |
|
SportsGuy Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3550
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 01:21 pm
I don't have many, but boy, do I wish I did have them. I'd say some level of various items on your list are mandatory, but it'll vary base don individual circumstances... |
| |
|
animated3d Joined: Dec 22, 2005
# Posts: 352
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 05:03 pm
i was interested in SEO first before doing web programming so i just used those web design programs and also some SEO programs then after i read them and used them for a while i thought i dont need any program to do the SEO for me its better to do it myself since i know the basics, then i said to work for myself as a SEP maybe it comes in handy to know html and some server side program(i chose php)i think it depends on your job if your job is just marketing and sem then SEO is enough but lets say you work a a freelancer or you are hired as a general webmaster then to have more skills is always better |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 09:18 pm
anybody else I saw ads in the newspaper for SEO and they were requiring rediculous skill sets, but now I see that I may actually be OK with my skills what kind of skills do the rest of you have? |
| |
|
formerskeptic Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 274
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 09:39 pm
SEOing? Nada  SEF target? Pro  |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 05/30/2007 09:54 pm
OK...so you got me figured out, so, still wearing the kilt what is the dress code for a SEO vs a SEM person is air conditioning or a fan better for a SEO work environment? |
| |
|
animated3d Joined: Dec 22, 2005
# Posts: 352
|
Posted: 05/31/2007 12:52 am
the sound of a fan relaxes me its a nice sound in the background :P and A/C's sometimes give me a headache like those ones they have in the casinos in vegas. ""I saw ads in the newspaper for SEO and they were requiring rediculous skill sets"" yes i had the same thoughts sometimes when i look at those ads, i think they dont know really what skills a person is supposeto do SEO for them should have so they come up with all those requirements such as bachleors in computer science and degree in marketing...etc those are some i have seen in the ads. |
| |
|
formerskeptic Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 274
|
Posted: 05/31/2007 02:13 am
Kids next door have pitched up a tent with it. Birthday suit. If you can afford it. You won't need either in your birthday suit  |
| |
|
flyingrose Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 05/31/2007 04:21 pm
I feel like the resident cynic pointing this out; however, it is fairly common for "job openings" to already be filled before the ads run so companies load the ad up with tons of qualifications to minimize the number of applicants they have to interview. It is also common for corporations to have laundry-lists of qualifications to control how much they pay new employees (and also existing employees seeking raises and/or promotions). I frequently see companies, especially corporations, tell someone they have to have another degree or more training before they would be considered for a raise or promotion and saw others promoted who did not meet those "requirements". I even know of one person who was "persuaded" to go into management when they were asked if they'd rather be the boss or work for specific other people who were less desirable. For those seeking work it is useful to know that most job openings are filled by networking rather than advertising. |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 05/31/2007 04:44 pm
back to the serious side I had an experience a few years back that few could relate too. I was one of 10 finalists for a network admin position. We were all taken into a room and interviewed as a group. Everyone presented themselves as knowing everything on every subject (they did not!). I was the only one that stated that there were some gaps in my knowledge and things I just plain did not know, but that I knew where to find information i needed and to figure out how to do the tasks. And for what was beyond my skills, I knew where to find a person (from years of networking) that had the needed skill set for a task or project. I got the job. As stated, many companies over state the qualifications that one needs to fill a position, knowing that very few have all of the skills they need. What they saw in me was that I didn't pretend to know what I didn't know and and that I knew where to find the knowledge or the person with a needed skill set to get a job done. I didn't know the reason they choose me until I was in the job for several months. They liked my honesty. |
| |
|
langardmicro Joined: Mar 12, 2007
# Posts: 72
|
Posted: 06/01/2007 04:14 am
In answer to the original question, sure, I think it's critical to have a wide breadth of programming, markup language, system delivery and design skills before you even think about advising someone else about SE Optimization. Having the knowledge it takes to create a complete, complex Web presentation is critical to SEO work. Otherwise, the entire direction and force of the effort are lost completely. Successful optimization only comes from a combined, well-orchestrated, consolidated effort by ALL of the parties involved, be they factions of programmers, digital artists, Board Members or whatever. A truly qualified SEO -- operating as a consultant -- should be the very first person to recognize and define any serious flaws in a web presentation LONG BEFORE they become permanent fixtures (at which point it becomes impossible or prohibitively expensive to alter them to achieve expectations at any rate). However, even I could optimize a site featuring early 19th century, one-legged, Haitian Voodoo Dolls carved from Pirate Ship Bounty Venezuelan Coconuts... All on my own. |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 06/01/2007 02:38 pm
and how often do we see people who got their site ranked #1 for "Pirate Ship Bounty Venezuelan Coconuts" decide to go into the SEO biz |
| |
|
flyingrose Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 06/01/2007 03:06 pm
The most dangerous person to listen to on any subject is the one who can convincingly sound like they know things they do not actually know. Knowing what I do know and what I do NOT know is something I consider one of my best qualities. Just as reviews that include comments on what someone does and does not like about a product or service are more valuable, an employee who is honest about what they know is far more desirable. I have found that among PPC experts I admire there is a wide range of beliefs and skill sets. What they have in common is that they continually learn more about their trade and they each focus on RESULTS. |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 06/01/2007 06:41 pm
you are right |
| |
|
langardmicro Joined: Mar 12, 2007
# Posts: 72
|
Posted: 06/03/2007 04:02 am
All knowledge is tied to nothing but survival, regardless of whether you're discussing SEO work or living. You can find tidy answers about knowing in the back of any math book. It is also, by itself, meaningless. Understanding (and wisdom), on the other hand, is the result of experience, perception, attitude and ability combined with a pretty keen knowledge of what-the-Hell you're talking about. I disagree with flyingrose on this: You can't possible "know what you don't know..." because you don't have a clue about whatever you're unaware of. Admitting ignorance about a topic is one thing, and I'm willing to openly admit the same when the case presents itself. Reading every book that Barnes and Noble have in print about SEO work, programming and the Net won't cut it either. There is a world of peopole out there cracking the little Walnuts of knowledge they glean from the very same manuals who are starving from lack of understanding. You want to do the job? Learn the trade. Nothing very mysterious about that. So far a focusing of RESULTS: They just arrested a King-Spammer in Washington state who got great results by zombie-emailing 15m people a day. Results aren't squat. They are just what you'll be judged by. |
| |
|
mj1256 Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 739
|
Posted: 06/03/2007 09:24 am
awesome knowledge beats everything I have a new business that I am working on with some partners. They do not research the industry or read trade magazines. They chose to not have their naivety corrupted so as not to lose site of thier vision. I on the other hand, read all of the trade mags I can find and am totally knowledgable on the business they are creating. What continually happens is that they keep finding out (through me) that their ideas and concepts are not unigue and that many in the field share the same USP. My point, their lack of knowledge permits them to create their own reality and as long as they protect that reality they are safe. The SEO that does not know the technical aspects of the field will also be able to create their own reality. How often do we see defenses coming up from people who have to protect their lack of knowledge and the reality they have created for themselfs. You are correct, you need to know all aspects of your business. At leat then you can defend your reality. Now, talking about reality. A dog knows that there is food in his dish, but has no concept of how that food is made, factories, canning, shipping, money to buy it, or any of the other factors in getting that food to the dish. His reality is that it just is, but remove the infrastructure of dog food, and he will starve because he can't recreate how food gets to him. |
| |
|
flyingrose Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 06/03/2007 11:58 pm
I stand corrected - partially. I agree that you cannot know something you have no AWARENESS of; however, when I am involved in a discipline I strive to understand "the big picture" so I will be aware of what else is involved. I do highly specialized work and refer anyone requiring other work to other specialists. What I properly should have conveyed is that I readily admit what I do and do not have advanced expertise in. When I post on a subject that anyone reading would expect me to know about I try to be very clear how much experience I have, why I believe what I write, and even more importantly what the limits are to my knowledge of that particular subject. Since this is an SEM-related forum I was writing from that perspective. When I speak of results specific to PPC I mean honing skills that allow us to ensure that advertising is effective and generating profitable sales. What strategies and tactics one is willing (or not willing) to utilize is guided by the integrity, beliefs, and what I will loosely call "morals" for lack of a better word at this moment of both the consultant and the advertiser. I would argue that the SPAMMER may have had short-term, temporary results; however, what counts are long-term results. I believe that sustainability is an important criterion for decision-making. Each person's "reality" is based on their perspectives and I would argue that no two individuals share the same "reality". In the case of this thread, my perspective of what the most important line I wrote is "The most dangerous person to listen to on any subject is the one who can convincingly sound like they know things they do not actually know." I have known at least several people who, intending to be helpful and being able to repeat what other knowledgeable individuals had said, frequently led people "down the garden path". These people had good intentions but they were very dangerous to those who listened to them. Duane can attest to the many people who come here with almost no knowledge of skills they are already accepting payment for performing. They, too, are dangerous to those who hire them. In summary, I still feel that within the limitations of a particular skill set, a specialist with knowledge of "the big picture" can have a good awareness of what they do or do not know. |
| |
|
Hampstead Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 1948
|
Posted: 06/04/2007 02:37 am
Yes - a particular bug-bear of mine. Set up as a SEO, charge people good money for your services then come here and ask puerile newbie questions. Grrrrrr. |
| |
|
dudibob Joined: Oct 13, 2005
# Posts: 1416
|
Posted: 06/04/2007 07:36 am
I see this more and more and it really does annoy me, any SEO forum you go on there's always someone asking that  |
| |
|
langardmicro Joined: Mar 12, 2007
# Posts: 72
|
Posted: 06/07/2007 01:32 am
I agree with you flyingrose. The Big Picture is critical to this business. I'm just tired of the science-babies who've been educated to think that huge, unqualified lists of irrelevant garbage statistics or mob opinions or weird, inductive conclusions about the Web actually have some value as legitimate knowledge. As a result there is a raft of bad SEOs lurking out there who, as you say, are completely fraudulent in their genuine understanding of the Web and who dangerously mislead the easily impressed. In fact, I dislike those types so much that it's been a motivation for me for the last ten years in this business. Anyone who strives for excellence realizes the same. What I've always found interesting and challenging, though, is trying to understand the 'reality' of the Web, whatever that is. It is like trying to hold water in your hand. Web reality changes so fast that it resembles madness more than a plodding, well-designed advancement. It drives everybody crazy who's trying to develop 'long-term' plans for sites, APIs or any other aspect online. For instance, none of the self-proclaimed 'Web Reality Pundits' ever had a clue that a site like MySpace would explode and attract millions of online users. Or uTube, or...you get the picture (no pun intended). But you have to have SOME handle on it to keep from getting paralyzed altogether. Seeking the best advise is always paramount to success, which is why I always tell my clients to get their collective butts into this forum and research a little -- if only to give themselves enough ammunition to challenge my recommendations and web development decisions. |
| |
Who's Online?
There are 183 guests and 1 members in the forums right now.
Reflects user activity within the last 5 minutes
| 1 2 Next Page >> | Previous Topic Next Topic |
Switch to Advanced Editor and ... Create a New Topic or Reply to this Thread |
Related Forum Topics
- Multiple Adsense Sites-SEO Friendly-Rank 1st page (In: I Want to Sell My Website)
- To Do Adsense/PPC/SEO In China With Fewer Limits. (In: Contextual Advertising - Adsense & Others)
- Any SEO and ADSENSE BLOGGERS (In: Google)
- FAST SEO - SUBDOMAIN WORK (In: Domains, Hosting, DNS & Server Issues)
- How to do PPC/SEO/High Ranking To China?? (In: Other Search Engines)
© 1995 - 2006 · iWeb, Inc · DBA JimWorld Productions