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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Oct-31 01:53
I found this very interesting:
- If organic farming methods were practiced on all the planet's food-growing land, it would be like taking more than 1.5 billion cars off the road.
- You can increase your antioxidant intake by 30 percent by choosing organic.
- The average child in America is exposed to five pesticides daily in their food and drinking water.
- The U.S. water system is regularly contaminated above safe limits immediately following chemical fertilizer applications to farm fields.
- Farms in developing countries that use organic techniques produce an average of 79% more than farms that don't.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Oct-31 01:55
This alone is a good reason: it would be like taking more than 1.5 billion cars off the road.
That would help solve the global warming problem.
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JQ
Staff
Joined: Mar 11, 2001
# Posts: 2765
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Posted: 2008-Oct-31 05:12
I don't think there are even 1.5 billion cars on the road now. Stats?
I'm all for organic farming, but most organic products cost more. Case in point, after hearing how good it was, I bought some organic milk for my husband (I'm lactose intolerant and don't drink it). He liked it so much he said there was no going back, and that's all he wants now. Trader Joe's regular milk is $1.99 for 1/2 gallon, organic is $3.29, a significant difference but not a deal breaker since he's the only one who drinks it.
On the other hand, we can do a lot for the planet if we just reduce our meat consumption. You can feed a lot more people with grains than with grain-fed beef.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Oct-31 08:24
Organic food costs more because the demand for it outweighs the supply. If the supply of organic food was common place (like the crap food we now buy) the prices would be as cheap if not cheaper. Farmers farmed with chemicals and got accustomed to that way of thinking. We just gotta make the other way of doing things common place and prices will drop.
Yep, agree about the meat consumption thing. People need to eat more beans, veges, fruits, nuts, herbs and spices.
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animated3d
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
# Posts: 444
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Posted: 2008-Oct-31 09:37
i buy mostly organic food because the organic gorcery market is near me and to me organic food is better but if it werent near me i dont think i would bother to buy organic, the worst is the milk because i read once that the antibiotics that they feed to the cows to stay healthy of course goes into their system(milk) that people drink, so when we drink the milk those antibiotics get in our system and then if we ever get sick seriously then taking antibiotics wont do their 100% job to heal us because our body already had some in its system and the viruses got used to it.
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Prowler
Staff
Joined: Aug 14, 2000
# Posts: 1832
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Posted: 2008-Nov-03 07:41
You are what you eat !
I agree that organic food is far better than the traditional food. But for a constantly increasing world population, some unconventional means of producing more grains is required too.
Packaging,storing and eventual distribution all require looking into too. Even organically "produced" eggs can be tainted with Salmonella Bacteria if not properly handled.
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ClickIt
Joined: Jul 31, 2000
# Posts: 746
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Posted: 2008-Nov-04 00:54
My Friends,
You forgot to mention the single most import reason for eating fertilized and pesticide treated foods - you avoid a horrible, painful death by starvation!
"You can increase your antioxidant intake by 30 percent by choosing organic." You can also do this by eating a sensible diet. Or taking a daily multivitamin. Or drinking green tea.
"Farms in developing countries that use organic techniques produce an average of 79% more than farms that don't." Site your source. The reason people use fertilizers and pesticides is that it works really, really well!
"If the supply of organic food was common place (like the crap food we now buy) the prices would be as cheap if not cheaper." Oh Curt, are you just saying this to be antagonistic? If you buy "crap food" it's your own damn fault. I personally am delighted to go to the grocery store and have my choice of 20,000(!) food products - at a price I can easily afford! The miracles of modern science are wonderful! The crops (plural) were not wiped out by pests, due to the intelligent use of pesticides? Fantastic! I have my choice of 6 different types of apples - and not a worm in a single one of them. Sorry Curt, your claim that organic foods would be as cheap as, if not cheaper than fertilized and intelligently treated with pesticide foods is not credible.
True, some foods, like Kiwi fruit, are naturally pest resistant. (And so all Kiwis are "organic". If you pay extra for "organic Kiwis" you are just succumbing to marketing hype.) Some crops, like cotton, are simply not viable without pesticides.
Pesticides and fertilizers are fantastic. As well, in the USA, Western Europe and Canada, in particular, the food supply is abundantly well protected, regulated, tested, studied, checked, and verified as wholesome.
Sure, we can all b***h about the food supply and vilify our fellow citizens who happen to be fertilizer and pesticide utilizing farmers. We can pass dumb laws to "protect" our non-agriculture producing urban citizens - thereby driving our farmers out of business. But this doesn't solve any problems, as everyone still needs to eat. So the food production gets shifted overseas - where the regulatory environment is likely to be far less stringent, honest, complete, thorough, or enforced. Do you really want to get your food from, say, the province of Melamine, China?
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Nov-04 05:35
ClickIt,
farms, factories, and big business use artificial pesticides and artificial fertilizers because that's what has been invested in by them. You can't patent natural pesticides and natural fertilizers so there's no money in "natural". Naturally they don't use natural methods. Big corps have figured that out long time ago and so pushed synthetic chemical crap on us telling us it's better when it is not. If they put the same kind of effort into natural pesticide and natural fertilizer use as we do in artificial crap, we'd all be better off. It's just way more profitable for big chemical businesses to sell synthetic crap.
And I suppose you get your data to back you up from where? Perhaps from the very chemical businesses selling the stuff? Sure, they'll tell you anything to make you believe they are doing you a favor. They are only doing their pocket books a favor. And the FDA is in bed with these people so you can't depend on them telling you the truth. Don't you know that big business is going to suppress the truth when there's money to be made on the lie?
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formerskeptic
Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 301
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Posted: 2008-Nov-04 05:42
With the world population growing at this rate, organic anything may become a thing of the past in the distant future. Pretty soon, everything will be re-engineered by man. From food to fuel. Imagine a generation that learns about organics in a museum. How messed up is that?
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mj1256
Staff
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 981
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Posted: 2008-Nov-04 14:15
which does google like best, organic or non-organic
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Nov-04 21:42
mj1256, That's funny 
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formerskeptic
Joined: Oct 05, 2001
# Posts: 301
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Posted: 2008-Nov-05 08:00
which does google like best, organic or non-organic
Probably non-organic 'cause it's quite rare to find junk on yahoo 
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mj1256
Staff
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
# Posts: 981
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Posted: 2008-Nov-05 22:54
that was funnier
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Nov-06 22:54
GM (genetically modified) food seed which is not organic seed is causing India farmers to suffer so greatly due to extremely high GM seed costs and huge debt that approx. 125,000 farmers commit suicide. --> See article for more info.
Evil Monsanto Corporation and GM seeds:...The price difference is staggering: £10 for 100 grams of GM seed, compared with less than £10 for 1,000 times more traditional seeds....
...Indeed, in a bid to promote the uptake of GM seeds, traditional varieties were banned from many government seed banks....
...But GM salesmen and government officials had promised farmers that these were 'magic seeds' - with better crops that would be free from parasites and insects.
...Far from being 'magic seeds', GM pest-proof 'breeds' of cotton have been devastated by bollworms, a voracious parasite....
...When crops failed in the past, farmers could still save seeds and replant them the following year. But with GM seeds they cannot do this. That's because GM seeds contain so- called 'terminator technology', meaning that they have been genetically modified so that the resulting crops do not produce viable seeds of their own....
At any rate, this is the result of greedy synthetic farming related corporations.
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animated3d
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
# Posts: 444
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Posted: 2008-Nov-07 17:00
organic food is to expensive for most people and will be even more rare in the future its production will just cost to much to make.
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Prowler
Staff
Joined: Aug 14, 2000
# Posts: 1832
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Posted: 2008-Nov-08 04:57
When evaluating the cost - you need to factor in the overall cost - the cost to the Society, the cost to the environment and the long term consequences of using a genetically modified produce.
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ClickIt
Joined: Jul 31, 2000
# Posts: 746
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Posted: 2008-Nov-09 18:33
Just a start:
http://www.fb.org/
http://ag.arizona.edu/
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome
http://www.fda.gov/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer
http://www.dmoz.org/Science/Agriculture/
Have you ever spent any time on a farm? In my experience, farmers are rather frugal, practical people who don't spend money on things that don't work or endanger their customers.
As well, as it is far easier to earn a living doing pretty much anything else, farmers are very much dedicated to producing excellent quality crops - and this would exclude using pesticides or fertilizers (that have direct costs related to their use) if these products did not work very well and safely. And as farmers eat their own products (and directly handle the pesticides/fertilizers) they have direct, specific, personal incentive to use only safe practices/products.
Yes, farmers would like to earn a living, but so does your doctor, who also earns a living - and maybe does well, (but that is far from certain in a farmers case)- by doing good.
[ Message was edited by: JimBot 2008-Nov-11 13:51 (UTC) ... Reason: Fixed Links ]
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Nov-11 05:06
Right now organic food is expensive in many categories, but in some the price is quite comparable. Case in point: pineapple (organic price: $3.49, regular price: $3.49--yep exactly the same). The demand for organics is high and the supply is low which drives up the cost unfortunately.
If farmers would all move to organic farming, price would come down but that entails relearning new methods and some/many farmers probably don't like to learn new organic methods when they are accustomed to the old synthetic methods already in use. Then there is the initial cost to convert over for whatever changes are required to farm organically. After all, farmers already invested in synthetic farm technics and don't want to convert over to organic methods even if it is better for us in the long term.
Also, how many artificial pesticide and artificial fertilizer factories control the actual farming industry in some manner through misinformation and other traps? Makes me wonder. It's not in the big business's interest to put themselves out of business. Organics threaten the artificial pesticide/fertilizer/GM food businesses and they will do whatever it takes to save their butts and that includes tons of misinformation to public, legal threats, controlling the government agencies (FDA, EPA, USDA), and using lobbyists to control politicians.
Just look at the huge Monsanto corporation and what they are willing to do to make a buck ---> Monsanto Info. If that doesn't convince you they do NOT have your interests at heart, nothing will.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3747
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Posted: 2008-Nov-15 21:37
Another FYI:Africa Could Grow More Food With Organic Farming
...A new study released by the United Nations indicates that the best way to increase food production in Africa is to shift to organic farming practices.
According to the study, African farmers who have already transitioned to organic production are seeing yield increases, on average, of 128% percent. Organic farming practices build healthier top soil, allowing plants to develop deeper root systems, thus providing greater resilience in extreme drought conditions...
--> READ MORE...
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Prowler
Staff
Joined: Aug 14, 2000
# Posts: 1832
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Posted: 2008-Nov-17 08:06
That is a good source of information Curt. 
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