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consultant
Joined: Feb 20, 2002
# Posts: 91
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Posted: 2004-May-13 18:46
My first question is whether people think it is better to outsource the management of e-mail lists to a third party server instead of handling on your own server?
If you have rather large lists, one benefit would that you would be offloading the server and bandwidth usage to someone else. More importantly, if the third party ends up being blocked, it is their server that is blocked not yours which could be a disaster if you run an e-commerce site that needs to send out order status e-mails and such. (However, how many ISP's also block servers registered to the domain in the return address also? - Probably not many since anyone could spoof someone else's domain to intentionally get them blocked right?)
This leads me to my next question. Who's the best third party e-mail list management service out there? I have one client currently using Roving's Constant Contact service. They've become increasingly hassled by them for spam complaints despite the fact their list is made of of customers who have purchase products from them and non-customers who opted in. Obviously they could send out opt-in messages to their customers but they feel an opt-out approach with existing customers is reasonable. (Everyone has their opinions about that, and that's not the focus of this thread, but I get a ton of catalogs in the mail each day from businesses I've bought from before so I don't see why e-mail is any worse, especially considering e-mail doesn't fill up my recycle been and it is disposed with a click of a button.)
Anyway, Constant Contact's spam threshold is no more than 1 spam complaint out of every 5,000 e-mails sent. Are you kidding me? You'll get at least that may complaints just from people that forgot they opted in (maybe by accident or just forgot, maybe the business changed their name, etc. all kinds of reasons.) I encourage Constant Contact to control spam in this way, if they get blocked and their customers e-mails don't get through, they won't have any customers any more. But 1 in 5000? Give me a break.
If, you agree it is better to outsource e-mail list management to a third party service, who are the best services in the industry that are not currently blocked by the major ISPs, are good about preventing spam originating from any of their customers, but have just a little bit more relaxed threshold. It's a game of balance between not pissing off the ISPs and not pissing of your customers. I think Constant Contact is out of balance and pissing off a lot of customers with reasonably 'clean' lists.
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JeffJ
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 7
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Posted: 2004-May-29 05:59
I always think it is best to outsource bulk email to a 3rd party service. Sending bulk email from your office computers or even your host can cause serious problems and can end up with having your business IP blocked by major ISPs.
Other alternatives to constant contact are
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=email+marketing+solution&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=
Just check out the sponsors on SERPs like that one
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rztmail
Joined: Jun 09, 2004
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2004-Jun-09 21:17
The right way to avoid spam complaints is to send newsletters anonymously. Have a look at
http://www.send-safe.com - you'll be able to send emails safely from your PC because nobody will see your real IP address. As a result - no problems with ISPs and full control over the mailing process.
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bistrogirl
Joined: Sep 22, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2004-Sep-23 17:20
I use mUrgent (www.murgent.com) for my email marketing and I love it. You have so much control over the content of your emails. They have a "sender authentication" feature which automatically sends each person in your database an email notifying them that they were added. I find that it really helps. They are pretty strict about spam (not sure what their complaint threshold is), but I have not had any problems with that so far. They have a spam checker which you can run before you send out an email to find out if any of your content could get your email caught in spam filters. I think it's pretty handy. Hope this helps.
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mikesschoolsupplies
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 2004-Sep-27 19:38
Wow, I kind of feel the same. I don't think I would be confortable with not being able to view my own information from my own customers... not good.
I also use mUrgents mailing system. I have not had a problem yet. The technical support guys thier are amazing too, and funny. They do things alittle different then most of the others out thier though. Each email has a letterhead at the top that looks like my business card or stationary package.
I use to use the starter package but I have since upgraded my package to the 10K package and now send out about 8,500 emails a month and it only cost me 64.95 a month.
My emails alwasy have a discount for back to school specials and such.. it has been one of the most powerful marketing tools for my business.. I still use direct mail for common customers to come in... because murgent is my retention tool not a spam tool, I tryed that and it really caused serious headaches. It brings my customers back to me not spams people that I don't know which inturn brings me more return then from first timers to my business.
hope this helps, just my two cents. take a look it really is a great thing for my business.www.murgent.com
Mike.
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john_glube
Joined: Oct 09, 2004
# Posts: 29
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Posted: 2004-Nov-03 12:24
My first question is whether people think it is better to outsource the management of e-mail lists to a third party server instead of handling on your own server?
The answer depends in part on how the individual wants to spend his or her time. If the person likes to do things herself, then manage your own mailings. One key point. Getting your message delivered. If you are going to do your own mailings it makes sense to work with an accreditation service.
(For more on this whole topic, the reader will want to review an article titled Who Pays and How To Survive The Email Transition. I wrote this article in late May. Although a couple of points have changed, the general thrust of the article remains accurate.)
If you have rather large lists, one benefit would that you would be offloading the server and bandwidth usage to someone else. More importantly, if the third party ends up being blocked, it is their server that is blocked not yours which could be a disaster if you run an e-commerce site that needs to send out order status e-mails and such. (However, how many ISP's also block servers registered to the domain in the return address also? - Probably not many since anyone could spoof someone else's domain to intentionally get them blocked right?)
On the question of domain spoofing, to protect your interests, it makes sense to work with an email service provider that has published an email policy record, so protecting its domain against spoofing. Also, publish the appropriate records for your domains, whether you do your own mailings or use a third party. For more information on how to do this, visit the SPF web site.
This leads me to my next question. Who's the best third party e-mail list management service out there?
Just before responding to your inquiry about alternative providers, on the question of your client's complaint problem, from what you describe the difficulty your client is facing is that he or she is importing the name and email address of customers without requiring the individual customer to confirm his or her request to receive commercial email.
The result? The client is going to be confronted with an increased level of complaints, especially in today's environment. Why? The big 3 mail box providers, Hotmail/MSN, Yahoo! and AOL provide their customers with a 'this is spam' button. Addresses with aol.com, hotmail.com, or yahoo.com likely form a large portion of your client's mailing list. So ...want to reduce your client's problems? Advise the client to run a permission based marketing business and use verified opt-in.
On the topic of alternative providers, there are many good list management service providers on the market. In today's environment, most email service providers won't allow you to import 'leads' without re-verifying. Some will require you to build your list from scratch and a number of providers are only offering verified opt-in.
Why such a strong approach. Simple. In essence, an email service provider is operating a shared mail server (s) for the benefit of its clients. Therefore the email service provider, to protect the interests of all its clients, needs to enforce certain rules.
One list management provider I would suggest folks consider is Bighip. I admit a bias. This particular provider gave me a free account for review purposes. I have been impressed.
As an aside, on the issue of list exports, I simply note that despite the complaints of some, this firm does allow for list exports.
Trusting this information is of some assistance.
Kind regards,
John
[snip]
[ Message was edited by: thejenn 11/29/2004 06:56 am ... Reason: Signature removed, per TOS. ]
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fabian05
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 2005-Mar-09 03:41
Billy_aspen:
No idea where you get that info from ..did a search and seems you have something personal against them?
We've been using [link] for over a year and have great success with it.
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