JQ
Staff
Joined: Mar 11, 2001
# Posts: 2765
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Posted: 2004-Jul-19 19:37
Exposing Click Fraud
No one seems to know for sure how many paid clicks are fraudulent, but estimates run as high as 20%. 
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2004-Jul-19 23:28
The only way to "know for sure" would be to have detected 100% of the fraudulent clicks which is not possible. Although certainly this is a serious issue, even with 20% fraud, keyword advertising could still be the best value for the advertising dollar.
With traditional advertising, what percentage of ads are seen by people seeking to buy that item vs what percentage just happen to see the ad and have no interest or are not currently in the market?
In print advertising, the circulation numbers include issues that may be unsold or distributed to other than your target market.
The bottom line will always be whether the advertising is cost effective; i.e., can you earn more than you spend.
This doesn't mean that I don't consider detecting and deterring click fraud to be important issues - I do.
I sincerely hope that the PPC companies are properly motivated to police it. Although they benefit financially from the fraud, the potential loss of income if they cannot control it is far greater.
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seologin
Joined: Sep 19, 2004
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2004-Sep-19 14:39
There was another article that I read where people sitting in India are clicking on your advertisement and you are paying thinking that you are getting users. But that doesn't happen. Thats too bad.
Lesson
Dont use small PPC operator.
google or overture may be better.
Question
What if they have PC's in USA and people sitting in india logged on to those PC using gotomypc or so and clicking you advertisement ?
Think about it.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2004-Sep-21 23:29
Click fraud affects all PPC companies including Overture and Google. It is a cost of doing business online. Regardless of the level of click fraud there are advertisers who receive substantial benefits from PPC advertising.
Each advertiser must decide for themselves which PPC companies generate a positive cashflow and which do not.
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bhartzer
Staff
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7042
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Posted: 2004-Sep-21 23:35
One thing that they didn't mention is that there are companies out there that you can hire to click on ads for you.
And what may be surprising to you is that there are Fortune 500 companies out there who hire these click fraud companies to click on their own ads, just to create a demand for their products and trademarks--and to keep the prices high so that their affiliates cannot afford to pay for ads.
Click fraud is big business, it's not going away anytime soon.
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quality-ins
Joined: Jan 18, 2001
# Posts: 360
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Posted: 2004-Oct-30 22:55
How is Kanoodle for click fraud.
I reactivated one of my keywords yesterday and got tons of no-quality traffic. I spent $100 for nothing.
Is Kanoodle hooked up with one of these click fraud companies?
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2004-Oct-31 23:45
One suggestion regarding Kanoodle to reduce suspect traffic is to consider asking them to block non-U.S. traffic. This is done manually and you have to phone them to request it.
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quality-ins
Joined: Jan 18, 2001
# Posts: 360
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Posted: 2004-Nov-01 23:27
Thanks flyingrose,
that's a good suggestion.
I need traffic from Canada as much as possible.
I'll call them and ask them if they can just show traffic for the U.S. and Canada.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2004-Nov-02 02:56
I haven't asked that specific question; however, since they're doing it manually I suspect that they can allow U.S. and Canada and block all other countries.
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keke21
Joined: Nov 30, 2004
# Posts: 19
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Posted: 2004-Nov-30 21:08
Did anyone ever think that maybe your competition might hire people to click on your ads all day to try to put you out of business?? I never liked the PPC...never any guarantees...
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2004-Nov-30 23:12
Life really doesn't come with guarantees although sometimes purchases do.
Yes, your competition could click on your ads. It would be unwise to divert resources from running a legitimate business for that kind of thing; however, that doesn't mean there aren't people who are unwise.
I believe different industries have varying amounts of that kind of problem, depending upon the type of people involved.
Some keywords probably have very little of that type of behavior while others may have serious intent of harm.
Perhaps this is another opportunity for someone to come up with a way of detecting or preventing at least some of this activity.
[ Message was edited by: flyingrose 11/30/2004 04:27 pm ]
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iixxvaderxxii
Joined: Jan 11, 2005
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2005-Jan-12 04:16
Here is what we [url deleted] think...
Non-well known search engines that are partnered with well known search engines are designed to FRAUD paying advertisers of their money indirectly (the most well known FRAUD search engine partnership is the seek99.com search engine and the Kanoodle.com search engine partnership). Usually you will only see these types of search engines displaying sponsored, paid listings.
[url deleted]
[Please keep your url in your profile only.]
[ Message was edited by: JimBot 01/12/2005 10:24 am ]
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bpeter1
Joined: Dec 21, 2004
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2005-Jan-13 05:06
for a small business that pays a few dollars per click, a competitor doesn't have to waste resources to click on ads. two clicks per day for a year can easily waste thousands from a budget. happens all the time.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2005-Jan-13 05:53
Many advertisers can greatly increase their income using PPC ads. Some click fraud must be looked upon as the cost of doing business.
Successful businesses focus on the positive. Rather than focus on the thousands wasted they focus on the tens of thousands earned as profit.
There are many companies offering services to monitor and get refunds for fraudulent clicks. There is a panel discussion on click fraud in the Dallas area this coming Monday night. Information at the DFWSEM site.
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gordinyo
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
# Posts: 20
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Posted: 2005-Jan-19 07:00
It's a stupid system if you ask me, and is only slightly worthwhile if the cost to the advertiser is relatvely low. Eventually the bigger sites should have "ratings" like TV and sell advertising according to viewers, not just clicks.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2005-Jan-20 15:59
I assure you it is not a "stupid system". Many small advertisers are generating huge incomes through PPC ads primarily at Google and Overture.
Yes, it has some weaknesses. It is still the most effective, targeted, and inexpensive method of advertising I have ever seen.
The very first Adwords campaign I ever created generated about ,000 in sales from in advertising in three weeks.
It is not unusual to be able to double or triple an advertisers's sales by expanding and optimizing their existing campaigns.
It is also possible to launch a new business and generate sales almost overnight. It takes time to really develop any business online or off.
Never before has someone with almost no advertising budget or money for start up been able to create a viable business and good to excellent income the way you can by combining a Web site with PPC ads.
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gordinyo
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
# Posts: 20
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Posted: 2005-Jan-22 03:54
I just don't think its' viable long term because it seems to depress, not inspire, consumer confidence in web content. Flyingrose, you claim that "never before has someone with almost no advertising budget or money for start up been able to create a viable business and good to excellent income the way you can by combining a Web site with PPC ads". Reminds me of the old phrase "if its too good to be true, it probably is". The only way I see this working is by either exploiting some weakness in the system itself, or by misleading online consumers. Great. How can this system not be a scam? Maybe there are some legit ways to exploit this system for now, fine, but in general all the mirrored sites, misleading ad copy, hidden pop-up sign-up pay for this and that crap out there is making it more difficult to use the web - I'm confident people will get fed up with the current deluge of "buy this free now", throw their pc's out the window, and go back to playing backgammon for boiled peas and carrot soup.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 2005-Jan-22 04:43
I have the advantage of managing dozens of accounts across multiple PPCs, primarily Google and Overture. It is not a scam and not "too good to be true" because it does require knowledge, testing, and an investment of advertising dollars (or other currencies).
I assure you that I don't exploit any weaknesses in the system and I do not mislead anyone. I simply ensure that online searchers see ads that are very relevant to what they're looking for and land them on pages that offer to fill their needs.
This is no different than having items available in the store or an ad in the yellow pages. All of the people I choose to work with offer legitimate products and services and are very reputable businesses.
Some are very honest hardworking family businesses with tiny budgets while others are very large companies. All benefit greatly from their advertising and all provide services that Internet users want.
None of them has mirrored sites (which are not inherently bad - they are usually used for either redundancy or to handle heavy traffic such as downloads of software) or pop-ups (which are not permitted by Google by the way).
Writing misleading ad copy would be an ineffective use of my client's money as visitors would not find what they wanted and would therefore not buy.
One of the major advantages I provide is writing very targeted ads that offer very specific items to Internet users who want them.
While you may throw your PC out you will be in the minority. Keyword advertising is growing and bids are increasing due to more businesses using it.
As long as click fraud can be controlled PPC advertising will continue to grow - and there are many new services to do precisely that.
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