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mattnugget
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
# Posts: 46
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Posted: 03/20/2005 05:00 am
I have very good CTR for my most most important keyword (8-15% each day) and have over the last months moved to a top postion on page one of search results. However, every single day I start lower than the day before. During the day my position improves (3,0 > 1,8), I guess because of the high amount of click. But the next day I start at postion 3,0 again, despite of the high amount of clicks the previous day. It has been like this for weeks, each time I go back to square one. This way I'm not making any progress.
I have asked Google about the problem but (as usual) I got a standard: your competitors must have raised their bids. That's impossible, they would we paying $50 per click by now. Does anyone have a more viable explanation? Does everyone get a fresh start every day, so I can no longer profit from my good CTR of the previous day? Or is this a trick by Google to make us raise our CPC-bids?
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 03/20/2005 05:46 pm
The most likely explanation is that you have competitors who are bidding high and hitting their daily budget or intentionally turning their ads off after some period of time.
In other words, there are more ads online first thing in the morning than there are later in the day.
Why do you consider this situation an issue for you? What "progress" is it that you want to see?
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mattnugget
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
# Posts: 46
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Posted: 03/21/2005 01:55 am
Thanks for your answer Flyingrose. Competitors reaching their budget limit, that could be an explanation.
The progress I want to make is to get to the no. 1 position. And stay there (and with my appealing ad - if I say so myself - this should be possible). Google is saying that our positions are determined by two factors: CPC and CTR. What is a mystery to me is how they calculate this. I guess the ad making most money for Google (so a simple calculation of CPC x number of clicks) gets to the highest position. But do clicks cumulate over a period of time? Or do we make a fresh start every day? I suppose that is going to stay a well kept Google-secret.
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 03/22/2005 12:53 pm
It is a simple matter to get to the top position. Just bid more than everyone else and you're there.
The question I have for you is WHY you want to be in the top position. You WILL definitely receive the most clicks there; however, you will also have a far lower ROI than if you bid for positions third to fifth or even second.
In my experience, first place can cost 40-60% more than second and third to fifth can save another 40-60% over bidding for second.
Wanting to be in first place is usually an ego issue rather than a brilliant business decision.
I have met only one person who was in house remodeling who felt he received far more work when he bid for first place.
I have one client who bids for second in order to have their keywords appear on a particular price comparison site that only uses the top two positions.
I know of no other evidence (other than what many large SEM companies will tell you) that being in first place is the best place to be.
In fact, the first thing I usually do when I optimize accounts is bid for a position of around 3rd to 5th for aggressive advertisers and anywhere on the first page for clients with smaller budgets.
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mattnugget
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
# Posts: 46
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Posted: 03/23/2005 12:06 am
Thanks Flyingrose
I know your arguments for not preferring no. 1 position. You have posted them before on this website. I don't know however if they apply to all business sectors.
I don't mind the extra traffic a no.1 position brings me. I have been in that position for several weeks until I hit the quarterly reshuffling of positions by Google. No. 1 brought me more traffic, but also more orders. ROI is only a little bit lower than it is in no. 2 or 3 position. I guess it is because I sell a product not everyone knows about. Seeing is buying.
I need 1 order in 200 clicks to make Google Ads profitable (my max. CPC is 17 cents, which is not much for a top-3 position for a highly competitive keyword). Currently I get about 1 order for every 50 clicks.
I could get back to no. 1 by bidding more, but that would make my ad less profitable (I know, I'm 'cheap'). I think I can get there without raising CPC, because of my appealing ad. My first post was prompted by a little bit of frustration about the fact that my steady progress back to no. 1 from no. 6 (after the reshuffling) gets a setback every morning. I guess that if I don't make any more progress within a few weeks time, it is inevitable for me to up the ante again.
By the way, I appreciate your answers on this forum. I think a lot of people do. We need all the insight we can get to stay ahead in this game.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes. Not a native tongue (Dutch).
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flyingrose
Staff
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 03/23/2005 07:49 pm
Your English is superior to that of many Americans. No apology necessary. Thank you for your recognition of the time I share here.
Remember that Google constantly makes changes including a major change at least once a quarter so there really is no such thing as permanent online.
At your CPC, bid cost isn't all that critical. For those paying fifty cents to several dollars a click it makes a much larger difference.
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MMacGillivray
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 82
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Posted: 03/27/2005 05:42 am
I had a quick look at your web site (in your profile) - and, if this is the one giving you a challenge at present, have a couple of suggestions for you.
Firstly, the title on your home page should also target the keywords which are getting sales for you. At present it's a bit bland. (The titles on other pages seem to reflect the content of that page, as far as I checked.)
And secondly, your site uses a lot of graphics which include text. Where possible, I think I'd recommend you try to put the text into the html of the page rather than on the graphics. That way, your pages might well move you further up the search results for your search term and that might mean you don't need to spend so much on Adwords in the first place. 
Margaret
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mattnugget
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
# Posts: 46
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Posted: 03/28/2005 09:42 am
Thanks for your help Margaret. I'm sorry, however, the website in my profile is not mine. I put a random one because I don't want to risk the chance (I know it's only a slim one) that one of my competitors reads my messages and puts two and two together. He or she would know how much I bid, what my ROI is, etc. and that is something I will only share 'anonymous'. 
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