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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/09/2005 04:57 am
OK, so I did a couple searches, and either I didn't pick the right words or this has only been obtusely touched on, so here's my direct question:
For SEO's who charge for services - how do you set the payment schedule?
I'm not so concerned about what folks charge - I'm trying to learn when they require payments.
For example: As a professional SEO, after signing the contract (or more specifically, after the client signs the contract), do you request pre-payment, 50% up front, 50% upon completion, 100% upon completion, etc.?
And is "completion" a defined quantity like "When I give you the last of the changes, the contract is complete."; or is the definition of "completion" more fluid, flexible for various situations (generally speaking).
Thanks guys - I appreciate your thoughts on this.
[ Message was edited by: SportsGuy 08/09/2005 05:25 am ]
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yellowwing
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2526
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Posted: 08/09/2005 05:26 am
It just depends on the client and size of the job. A quick content update might go in one payment. A large site with many targeted keywords might have to be implemented in phases.
On a normal contract, I usually go with 50% up front and the balance spread out either 2-3 months.
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/09/2005 06:09 am
That's about what I expected YW. I appreciate the info. I'd taken the "multi-phase" approach with a couple clients in the past, but figured I'd ask to see what the current thinking was on this topic.
Thanks again.
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dcaff03
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 142
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Posted: 08/10/2005 01:24 pm
There's also the very user friendly approach of creating a long term client by spreading out the cost factors even further then 90 days...
Yes...one must insist on some sort of retainer/deposit fee upon contract signing to get the project up and running...but can also offer
spreading out payments over 6 - 12 months to help defray the cost of the project (to your valued client) .. and a typical project is going to run several thousand to tens of thousands) ..
I work on a retainer basis...so I am available to my clients over the term of the project (at least one year)
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/10/2005 05:50 pm
I like that idea - retainer + lower monthly payments. 
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 08/16/2005 08:22 pm
retainer is a pretty good way to go, that helps. Personally, I only work with people who will pay me, and when I send them a bill, they need to pay it. Just like when you hire any contractor or engineer. I do hourly charging, that's a choice, most people don't make that choice, but I keep my rates low to give me the freedom to do what needs to be done rather than skimp and make sacrifices to avoid losing money. I'm not going to spend 2 weeks working on a project I thought would take 15 hours and not get paid for it, and that turns out to be 4 times more f**cked up than I first thought, which is about the norm from my experience. I don't do estimates etc except in a very rough sense, they pay me for the work I do, it's very fair rates, so if they complain or don't pay, they aren't my clients anymore. Happily this doesn't happen very often.
The good thing about this method is I filter out cheapskates and flakes, which from what I see is most potential clients.
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/17/2005 05:12 am
The good thing about this method is I filter out cheapskates and flakes, which from what I see is most potential clients.
I get that sense, too...based on a few recent e-mails I've received... 
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 08/17/2005 05:03 pm
Yep, here, that's a problem.
These kinds of prospective clients have no appeal to me at all. No resources, no real website, bad code, usually no content worth speaking of [some exceptions of course]. And, by far the worst, the projects are boring, uninspiring, derivative in most cases, 9 times out of 10 some really crappy affiliate thing they probably paid a few hundred dollars to join, and can't figure out why their junk site isn't ranking. Christ... Exactly the kinds of projects that you have to pay me a lot to do, there's nothing intrinsically valuable or noteworthy, so it's just a boring job, with nothing learned, nothing changed, another junk site. Not all, but most.
And, what's far worse re seo, they think you can sell a package, one time. This is how losers on the web think. The winners realize that maintaining websites is an ongoing concern, year in and year out. It's a business expense, like any other. If your business is running a website and you don't want to pay any expenses, then dream on when it comes to having real success, unless you have the skills you need yourself, in which case of course you're not asking for seo help.
Happily I don't receive as many stickies about helping people as I used to here. There was one guy though, recently, he was really funny, he offered me I think $15 to do a full .htaccess/+ site internal link reprogramming. The pathetic thing is that a: he was serious, and b: he thought that this was a fair offer.
Your posting have been pretty good by the way.
[ Message was edited by: lizardz 08/17/2005 05:25 pm ]
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/19/2005 05:26 am
Thanks Lizard.
Your thinking is spot on - I share it.
I've been working for the same company for the last 4 years (4 years, this Sunday, in fact). They've been good to me in terms of conferences, tools, etc. to learn about SEO. Naturally, my job here has evolved into an SEO only role.
I'm happy to help folks when I can fit it in, but in the end, I have other things to do first - work, my own SEO contracts from time to time, and my own website on a favorite topic.
Thanksfully, over the last four years, I've done it all and seen it all as regards online marketing - from selling the ad space to running the PPC campaigns, I was the dude at one point or another.
One thing you said rings ture - money - like any business, it costs to play (our fibre line just here at the office runs $10K per month - we have a back-up location mirroring everything here, across town). Started with two guys, now we have 106 people - millions in sales, etc.
If folks think this stuff is cheap, they're deluded - it's a stepping-stone effect.
I need ad-serving software for my website. I first have to sell the current space, generate enough revenue to sink back into a yearly license. (There's 2 months sales out the door). Then I have to continually expand on content to offer good value to the advertisers, and grow the site to offer the users a reason to keep coming back.
Crap - it never ends - thankfully, I'm into the marketing and SEO side of things. I only had to learn web design, etc. No small task, and my hats off to designers everywhere, but without the business side for a site, it's drain on funds.
Unfortunately, most callers for SEO work are just as you described - folks gain a little knowledge, then think they "get it" and you should offer them everything for $5.
Geez - I've lost count of the hours into my main site so far this year, but it's into the 200+ region. Lost track of the money long ago too - I just know, as you say, it ain't cheap to play online.
This place is great because the folks who know their stuff don't mind sharing with others who know their stuff.
Thanks again.
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St0n3y
Joined: May 01, 2002
# Posts: 1620
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Posted: 08/19/2005 09:13 am
We have a yearly contract so we break that up into monthly payments. Payment is due before work begans and then at the beginning of each month thereafter.
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SportsGuy
Staff
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3597
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Posted: 08/20/2005 06:15 am
Thanks Stoney.
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