andyhite
Joined: Aug 20, 2005
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 08/20/2005 04:52 pm
Hello all,
I recently started a new job at a web development firm that has been around for about 6 years and has many "high-profile" local clients. One of the projects they dropped on me this week was to "revamp" our search engine marketing and optimization services. After going over some reports they provided me, it's incredibly apparent that whatever they have been doing in the past for search engine marketing has NOT been working. At all. Many of our clients have horrible rankings in all the major search engines and that's something they want me to change.
All they have been doing in the past is using Web Position Gold 2 exclusively. My understanding is that the majority of the optimization and marketing "tools" SEO programs have are basically useless and submitting to search engines isn't necessary because web spiders should pick up the site in the first place. My plan is to only use this program for reporting and figure out a method for manually optimizing and increasing ranking of our client's websites, starting with the lowest ranking clients.
The first thing we're going to do is allocate a certain amount of money per month for bidding on keywords and buying sponsored placement on Google for websites that are priority but at the bottom of the reports. I know that's basically a sure-fire way to increase ranking and it's ridiculous that we weren't doing that in the past, but apparently my predecessor "dropped the ball" and never kept up with it.
Anyway, my question is this: what are the most effective ways to increase your rank on the major search engines? Are there any SEO programs that are actually worth looking into? I don't have any experience in SEO, so I'm doing as much research as possible and trying to get ideas from outside sources.
Thanks for your help!
Andrew
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yellowwing
Moderator
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2524
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Posted: 08/20/2005 08:50 pm
Welcome aboard Andy!
Allocate time for research! Study what the client's are in the business of. Figure out those keywords. Look at the SE competitors. Plan a strategy to methodically outrank the competition.
Buying PPC keywords will not help in SEO results. It will get your clients interim traffic, but not top 10 organic search results.
Try starting off by making sure the clients are found when searching for their business name. That's a good way to start showing results.
Then go after the least competitive keywords. After some directory listings, you can make the tougher ones.
Be sure that management understands it is a process. They had been basing their marketing efforts on a $99 off the shelf peice of software. Not to smart.
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SportsGuy
Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3550
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Posted: 08/22/2005 12:55 pm
...and make sure everyone knows there's a timeline involved here - not one measured in weeks, either - in months, many months.
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flyingrose
Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
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Posted: 09/01/2005 06:03 pm
Welcome, Andrew. I hope you want an honest opinion on this. First a disclaimer: I am NOT an SEO expert although I understand the basics. I AM a PPC consultant with years of experience.
Both SEO and PPC are specialized skills that are more art than science. If they really want great results and you don't want TWO new careers the best thing you could possibly advise is to either hire two people with experience OR outsource the work to the very best you can find.
The reason I say two is that while the keyword research is similar, other aspects of SEO and PPC are not. Both change so rapidly that it is extremely difficult for one person to stay on top of both and be the best at either.
Many SEO firms also do PPC work and many SEO individuals accept PPC work. If their core business is SEO they may or may not be able to devote the time nor have as much experience as someone who does PPC full time.
The Keyword Advertising page in my profile has a section on how to evaluate and hire consultants and most of what it says would apply equally well to employees.
It also has information regarding PPC which may be useful to you when discussing PPC with your company or writing proposals on how to best address their needs.
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dcaff03
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 142
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Posted: 09/02/2005 01:24 am
Andrew...
You have your work cut out for you...there is much to consider in today's challenging SEO marketplace...the competition is getting thick and the search engines are doing everything they can to "grab" some of the organic traffic for their own revenue initiatives... (keeping the stock holders happy)...
You may want to consider bringing in an outside SEO consultant to help you build out a viable strategy for your firm and it's client base...this would be an individual with at least 5 years of PROFESSIONAL GRADE SEO EXPERIENCE...you will need this type of depth to get a grip on the challenge in front of you..
flyingrose makes some very good points...and PPC and SEO are two different animals indeed...you can certainly create some
traffic and immediate interest with a carefully crafted PPC campaign...while working on the long term SEO strategy for the ever changing organic SERPs...
Feel free to PM me if you would like some more info and insight...
and if you really get stressed get your hands on Sergio Mendes and Brazil '66 and Brazil '65...this music will set you free...(if you have an iTunes account...you can find them there under "Latin" and "Sergio Mendes"...
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excell
Moderator
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14495
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Posted: 09/02/2005 07:22 am
I'm wondering what your "job description" is. To throw the outcomes for multiple clients into your hands without providing you with adequate training or assistance seems irresponsible to me.
By the sound of it they should never be claiming SEO to clients in the first place. I would tell them that you need to either hire a consultant or an independant expert or they can pay you a whole lot more to go through the process of self researching and training.
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rachelreveley
Joined: Aug 07, 2002
# Posts: 269
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Posted: 09/05/2005 09:08 am
Its funny this topic came up because I got into SEO in the same way about 3 years ago (I had just looked up how long I had been a member here). I joined a very small ISP that was even further behind - Meta tags and submit Wolf. My boss gave me a few months to research and I found a lot of very old information and an awful lot of trash and then found this site and learned an awful lot. I got the job as a web designer and find that being able to combine the skills of design, HTML and SEO is very useful. Its a case of read, read, read, use your common sense, read some more and then start working on the jobs one at a time if possible so that you can see what works for yourself.
I would say that there are basically five stages
1 . Resolve any technical issues - javascript links, redirects, bloated/poor quality code etc
2. As much original content as possible.
3. Do your keyword research and make sure it is rellevant to the content.
4. Get good quality inbound links found other webmasters, directories etc. Not FFAs and preferably one way rather than reciprical.
5. Monitor fix and tweak where neccessary.
Don't underestimate how much your web designers and developers can help if they know what techniques to avoid then it saves you time fixing their work.
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rachelreveley
Joined: Aug 07, 2002
# Posts: 269
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Posted: 09/05/2005 09:11 am
Just another thing. I found www.webmastertoolkit.com very useful when I got started and it is great for building reports for potential clients but the best software is in your own head. You just need to train it first.
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g1smd
Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10060
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Posted: 09/05/2005 11:56 am
>> but the best software is in your own head. <<
Can I use that quote for the next newbie that asks about auto-submission spamming software, or reciprocal link spamming software? 
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SportsGuy
Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3550
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Posted: 09/05/2005 12:02 pm
LOL - one of the best staements ever made!
but the best software is in your own head. You just need to train it first.
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rachelreveley
Joined: Aug 07, 2002
# Posts: 269
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Posted: 09/07/2005 03:13 am
you can quote it all you like I hope some people take notice of it
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denvershea33
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 09/13/2005 11:59 am
My advice - hire a company. Most Seacrh Engine Marketing companies have SE certified employees and work with SEs all day long. The SE landscape changes so much and is so much more an art then a science, why not hire a professional?
Need SEM companies- I can send you a list.
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SmartROI
Joined: Nov 18, 2003
# Posts: 288
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Posted: 09/13/2005 11:22 pm
hehheeh.. SEO Certified..... certified by who? Tell you what. I'll certify everybody I hire as SEO certified. ;-)
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g1smd
Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10060
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Posted: 09/14/2005 04:17 am
I certified myself:
"I guarantee that I know what I know".
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SportsGuy
Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3550
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Posted: 09/14/2005 05:52 am
I know a bunch of stuff about a bunch of things! AND, I should be certified! 
Man, THAT myth is right up there with "SEO is only PPC" and "All you need son, is a good set of meta tags - you'll OWN the categroy!"
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denvershea33
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
# Posts: 2
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Posted: 09/14/2005 07:19 am
Boy - some bitter people out there!
My first note on a forum and I get blasted (for just trying to help someone?)!
My point was SEO is not an expensive service, but very time consuming and the rules change all the time, so just hire a professional (agency or consultant). SEO is foundation for your web site traffic and should be top of mind for most companies - spending $20K year is worth it (in my opinion, obviously not yours ;-) !!!
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SportsGuy
Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2002
# Posts: 3550
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Posted: 09/14/2005 08:32 am
Boy - some bitter people out there!
My first note on a forum and I get blasted (for just trying to help someone?)!
My point was SEO is not an expensive service, but very time consuming and the rules change all the time, so just hire a professional (agency or consultant). SEO is foundation for your web site traffic and should be top of mind for most companies - spending $20K year is worth it (in my opinion, obviously not yours ;-) !!!
Bitter - nope, just been around long enough to have heard pretty much all the lines
Sorry for what you felt was a less-than-warm welcome. I was simply poking some fun at an old joke. I can't speak for others, but there you have it.
Incidentally, you say SEO is not an expensive service, but you also say that spending $20K a year is worth it.
I agree completely in the value of SEO, but that amount of money to many folks would be classified as expensive.
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excell
Moderator
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14495
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Posted: 09/16/2005 09:17 am
yes - many services performed by long term professionals with great results are inexpensive. you just gotta find them
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Hampstead
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
# Posts: 1941
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Posted: 10/08/2005 05:13 am
Where can I buy certification?
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g1smd
Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10060
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Posted: 10/08/2005 10:33 am
You could buy my certification, certified by me.... that's the point: there is NO official certification, at all.
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