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hbrecher Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 06/24/2004 07:42 pm
This topic confirmed my suspicions regarding violations of Google Guidelines that were aroused a couple of hours ago when I examined the files that TF had uploaded to my domain. I removed every TF file from my server and changed the password to deny any future access. Once this was done I wrote TF telling them to cancel my contract and gave them the true reasons and mentioned that allowing them to violate the various SE guidelines would probably result in my domain being banned and the loss of my primary source of income. They may or may not issue my refund cheerfully, but I will certainly recover my payment via a chargeback if necessary. They would be smart to just issue the refund and make it easy on themselves and less inconvenient for me. QUESTION: Does anyone have a LEGITIMATE SEO company that they can recommend? Good luck to all. Huey |
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discountlaptops Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 06/24/2004 11:13 pm
Sorry Guys, I am removing my post until I get fully informed. Matt |
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OAC Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6777
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Posted: 06/25/2004 06:10 am
"A lot of their sites are removed right now" Huh? |
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thejenn Joined: Aug 08, 2001
# Posts: 9196
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Posted: 06/25/2004 06:34 am
"Jim world is one of our competitors" JimWorld is a free service allowing individuals to come here and share tips, ideas and questions with other online marketers. John Cokos, who runs the forums, isn't even an SEO/SEM. He's a programmer. How does that make us one of their competitors? |
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g1smd Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10155
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Posted: 06/25/2004 07:12 am
Google had a virus? Is that "public knowledge" (I really doubt it ever happened - would have made front page news in every newspaper of the world) or just another pile of BS (very likely)? |
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bigsteve Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 06/25/2004 09:22 am
It looks to me like Google might have done a mass erasure of a good proportion of TP optimized sites. Here's why: The following wording appears on the pages of pretty much every TP site: "Thank you for your quick response...it says a lot about who you are as a merchant." Now...when I used to put that in it would show over 6000 results. Now it shows 5270 but only 3 pages of links are accessible i.e 30 or so sites. Furthermore, when you click on the "repeat the search with the omitted results included" at the bottom of the third Google page, you get nothing - no results whatsoever. Maybe I'm missing something but it looks to me that along with my friend's site, many more have been removed. Steve |
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discountlaptops Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 06/25/2004 09:39 am
This is why I posted the responses. I have been contacted by Tyler, a director of Traffic-Power is now going to contact me. Any input on the questions I should ask him? I just want to find out what the truth is. For the most part, I can see that Google is as guilty as TP. Google should run a search engine, rather than mess with the legit busineses on the web. My keywords were very relevant, and people were finding what they were looking for. It weas not spam. The keywords were relevant for teh search term and the content was QUALITY. I can't tell you how many times I heard "This is the best company, I can't beileve I found you." Google is simply too big and too powerful, and they are playing Diety with businesses. Regardless of what I think, I have to comply with their policies. On the otherhand, TP apparently knows what they are going, and the consequenes of their code. They take the quick buck and let thier clients take the heat. The net effect is major damage to the client. IMO, Both are at fault. If Google were confident in their logrithum (sp?) then we would not have this problem. If TP were not so aggressive in thier process, Google probably would care. But when you get a compay with fairly good experience on the web like [please keep your url in your profile], and mix it with TPs process, its like putting a target on your back. Had I only know that TPs code was against the Google guidelines, I could have made a more informed decision. Now I may have to tell some employees to take a vatioan for af ew months until business returns to speed. That is a tough discussion to have..... Anyones thoughts? |
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bhartzer Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7034
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Posted: 06/25/2004 09:46 am
Yes, it appears like Google banned a lot of the sites that were using TP's spam. |
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iobs2 Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 1
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Posted: 06/25/2004 10:00 am
I joined TP on May 19th and wasn't affected by the Google ban. I erased all their pages and links from my site and also from the web. Almost 85% of the sites listed on their link farms have been banned from Google. I don't know why some have not been affected. The link farms that listed the sites have been banned so I doubt that all that have not been banned by now would be in the future. But it's best to clean up your sites immediately. I also had many emails back and fourth with Tyler and got the same BS as Matt did. From: Tyler Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:41 PM To: Matt Subject: Re: What did you found out? Hey matt, I will cancel you out at your request. Tyler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:21 PM To: Tyler Subject: Re: What did you found out? Please remove all the links associated with my site from all your link sites immediately. Also if you still insist on the BS that you are feeding others, click below. http://jimworld.com/apps/webmaster.forums/action::thread/forum::seo-101/thread::4094/start::161/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Tyler To: 'Matt' Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: RE: What did you found out? Hi Matt, Nobody is banned. Google is updating their index. Exact same thing they did 3 months ago, when they are done everything will restore back to normal. What we know about the update: -actively re-indexing (globally as well) -moved data from one index to another -clients who are being transitioned from one index to another may not see themselves because it is not “live” yet -no estimated time frame for completion -google is not going to necessarily publish information about what is going on -have recalculated pagerank -The Bottom line: we do not control the Search Engines; we do not guarantee placement in specific search engines; Yahoo and Msn are up and coming SE’s also -A client could go from 500 up to 5 in a day, and also Vice Versa… they can go from 5 to 500 This update involves re-indexing and re-calculation-and moving information from one index to another. Due to this, there are ‘holes’ in the current index. We do not know how long this is going to take, as we have no control over the Google updates. Historically when issues like this have arrived they always stabilize and basically it is just a matter of time. Thanks Tyler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:15 AM To: Tyler Subject: What did you found out? Hey Tyler, Did you find out anything else? Because no one is helping me in your company. Please remove all the links from those sites that are banned immediately because I don't want to get banned neither. Please advise. Thanks Matt |
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bigsteve Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 06/25/2004 10:33 am
I don't think any of the blame is Google's. They have rules to try and ensure that their SERPs are relevant. Nobody wants to search for something and end up with irrelevant link farm pages that send you nowhere. That is why Google is a great SE. For the most part you find what you want. TP is totally to blame however. They know darn well that their practices do not meet Google's standards plus they use heavy sales techniques and lie through thier teeth. This morning my buddy was told that "Google is reindexing - your site should reappear in a few weeks". The first part is probably true, the second is a flat out lie. And...for thise who still don't believe and are about to plonk down a wad of cash with TP, here is one of their link farms: http://computer-hardware-software-electronics.net If you do a whois on the main domain you should find that it belongs to the same people that are involved with TP. Now page down and look at how they stack their customers onto 8 pages of links. To the disbelievers: grab the individual domains and do a google search. I tried 5 at random and only one of those poor bastards is still in Google's database. The rest have been whacked. That certainly is a testament to the brilliance of TP's SEO techniques. Steve Be warned! |
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bhartzer Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7034
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Posted: 06/25/2004 10:41 am
Google is constantly reindexing. If your site has been banned, then you need to competely remove anything on your that may have caused the ban. If someone calling themselves an "SEO" has put code on your website then you need to remove it completely. Once it's been removed, send a message to webmaster @ google.com with the subject "reinclusion request". Explain the situation as best you can. I'm told that they will evaluate your website and make a decision. |
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discountlaptops Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 06/25/2004 01:49 pm
There have been a ton of websites that were removed, many of them are not TP clinets, but many are. The common link appears to be the link farm and back-link generators. Sintes who used these methods to gain relavancy are getting hit hard. Since TP uses this method, their clients are getting hit too. The real question is wether or not Google will aloow these websites back. Time will tell. |
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bhartzer Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7034
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Posted: 06/25/2004 02:22 pm
From what I've heard, the official word from Google is that if you've been a victim of a black-hat SEO and you remove everything that they did to your website that got you banned, you'll eventually be back in the index. You must ask to be reincluded, though. Here's more info: http://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html Please note their use of the term "snake oil" on the left side of the page as well as their recommendation of getting in contact with the FTC. |
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swapx Joined: Jun 21, 2004
# Posts: 10
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Posted: 06/26/2004 12:08 am
If TP is as bad as everyone says, then answer one question: How come there has not been even a single lawsuit from a single company against them? And don't point me to the link for the class action thing. I mean if it is so easy to prove that TP has resulted in companies being removed from Google indes and TP knows this and continues doint it, then any individual company that is hurt can go after them in a big way and get lots of money in damages. This is a litigious country and we all know that if someone like TP does as you guys say, hundreds of companies would have been after them by now. It just does not add up! I think the bashers are just competitors signing up under different names and posting here. Here is an example of a site that produly says they were optimized by TP in 2003: www.sipgroup.org and they are still in top 10 on Google for their keywords. cheers, Mike |
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jennid Joined: Mar 30, 2004
# Posts: 29
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Posted: 06/26/2004 06:17 am
Hey Swapx - please go ahead and have TP optimize your site. We can have a pool as to when your site will be banned. Regarding the lawsuit issue - when you are the CEO of a e-commerce site that has been banned from the search engines, your first priority is keeping your company alive and providing job security for your employees. The thought of spending thousands of dollars to hire an attorney to sue is not on the top of the "to do list" when you are trying to stay alive. My reason for posting on this board is to keep others from having their site banned. period. If I can stop just one company from hiring traffic power I have done more immediate damage to them than I would by suing them. That being said, a class action suit makes the most sense for those involved. It will be a way for us to share information and save $$ on attorneys fees. |
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bigsteve Joined: Jun 23, 2004
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 06/26/2004 06:47 am
swapx - I have emailed you information about a domain that I know for a fact has been whacked. You need to get your head out of the sand - or maybe you work for TP...who knows. To think this is a vast conspiracy against traffic power is asenine. Proof: look at the domains that TP has optimised in the link farm addresses and pick a couple. See if they are in Google. What more proof do you need??? As for your example: http://www.sipgroup.org/ they like others are using attraction pages and hidden mouseovers - look at the source of their main page - there are hidden links to some of their attraction pages. Now, they do seem to have a lot of genuine content but page through the allinurl results and you will see the trademark TP pages that redirect. This is a no-no and I'm sure it is only a matter of time. Steve Would you believe the facts if sipgroup was banned. I'm sure Google read this site and you have now tipped them off! |
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discountlaptops Joined: Jun 24, 2004
# Posts: 6
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Posted: 06/26/2004 08:23 am
Ok guys, Here's the deal. I checked this morning and I am back up on th Engines! I sent the emails in with the "re-inclusion request" and received a reponse the same day.:D I removed all the TP code from teh server, ALL OF IT. The next day, I called and left a message for an exec at Google and sent an email. This morning, I am back up. Page rank of 6 and my rankings are still very high. The odd part is all the TP pages are still being referenced in the search engine. But when I follow the link there is a "Page not Found" error. Luckily for me, the most productive page is my home page and not a link page. Doesn't that seem odd? Why are the TP pages still being referenced? Wow, what an adventure. I hope I stay up. |
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paulweb Joined: Jun 26, 2004
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 06/26/2004 03:46 pm
I know about Traffic-Power.com because I used to work in their sales department and I am very familiar with their deceptive sales practices. Before I begin I want everyone who reads this to know that I am not a disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind but someone with a conscious who could not longer work for a company that takes advantage of unsuspecting customers. This company sells a search engine optimization program that is vastly overpriced. The sales people have wide discretion to sell the program for whatever price they think they can get. The bottom end price is $600 for a 6-12 month program and I've seen the same exact program sold to unsuspecting customers for over $5000. These salesmen talk a good story. For the most part the sales force comes into the company with no internet marketing knowledge and after hearing other sales persons pitch for a few days, they get on the phone and act like they have years of experience. These guys will use high presure or whatever it takes to part you from your money. They work in a boiler room environment. The sales pitch relies heavily on showing examples of other client results and providing so called client "references". The examples they show are by far the exception to the rule. The average client gets nowhere near these results. As for the references these are actually "singers" for the company. In other words the company provides a financial incentive for them to provides a positive reference, such as having their sites maintained at no cost after their initial contract expires as long as they "sing" for the company. The search engine optimization program uses doorway pages that they call advertising pages. These can gain some placement results in the short run but it risks the furror of the search engines, who may blackball your site in the long run for using deceptive practices. If you decided to use this approach anyway, you would be much better off getting your own software package (eg, Web Position Gold) and doing it yourself. They also link your site to other client sites and FFA pages. Personally I think there are better optimization approaches to doorway pages and link farms. Once you purchase and your program gets underway, you will be handed off to a technician whose only goal is to get the programming done as fast as possible and posted on your site. Don't believe the pitch that it is a time consuming process. It is done with automated software and after they fill in a few blanks on their screens they hit a key and the code is generated. Finally if you ever have concerns about the process or the results you will be directed to the help desk ie. customer service dept. You will find this to be a frustrating experience as they will defend the company tooth and nail. You are always wrong and will not get your money back. My suggestion is to not to deal with this company. If you recently paid with a credit card, get your credit card company to DO A CHARGE BACK. This is the one thing the company fears and will not fight. |
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yellowwing Moderator
Joined: May 21, 2002
# Posts: 2524
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Posted: 06/26/2004 04:40 pm
That is sad to hear. If they took the effort to develop good technical R&D and 'best practices', 5k would be the low-ball amount. A good motivated salesforce WITH the product to back it up are a goldmine. |
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g1smd Moderator
Joined: Jul 28, 2002
# Posts: 10155
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Posted: 06/27/2004 01:39 am
You should also read: Google Pulls Plug on "onmouseover" Pages (may require free registration) along with: Google Update of both PR and Back Links! (posts from June 24th onwards). See also traffic-power and Traffic-Power.com. It seems to me that TP have already told a lot of new people, potential customers, who they have worked with in the past, and TP publicise various sites as being ones that they have worked on. That information is still out there, and still circulating, and it will continue to circulate. Many sites are currently banned, but will eventually get their rankings back. At some time in the future you will have people arriving at your site, just having a look to see how good TP are. They will see your good rankings, find no evidence of wrong-doing on your site, and then hire TP because they seem to have done a good job. They will be totally oblivious to the fact that TP totally farked your site and rankings, and that you had a long haul to get it back together again. If you want to stop more people being suckered by them, then you need to put a notice on your site that you have no association with them, and maybe post a single page about what they did, or maybe reference one of the many threads about them on the various forums. [This thread is continued in the Traffic Power #2 thread. Please post additional comments there.] |
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