Printer Friendly Version
Email this thread to a friend
|
Featured Web Site Template |
|
Reflects user activity within the last 5 minutes
|
|
| Member |
Message |
nicknsj
Joined: Aug 28, 2005
# Posts: 10
|
Posted: 10/05/2005 12:52 am
In regards to PPC I know that google provide tracking software with adwords so can someone tell me what the advantages of using a software package like clicktracks would be.Basically, am I ok using the free software or not?
Thanks.
|
 |
bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
|
Posted: 10/05/2005 12:57 pm
You could use the free software/script, but you need to realize that buy using it you're giving your ROI and conversion data directly to Google. And since they know your best-performing keywords, so that data is passed on, indirectly, to your competitors who end up bidding on those terms.
I don't recommend that anyone use Google's tracking services--it's provided free for a reason.
|
|
Logan
Moderator
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
# Posts: 3749
|
Posted: 10/05/2005 01:39 pm
I don't agree entirely. I understand the concern, but as a user and competitor I don't follow the logic of how the following is occurring -
so that data is passed on, indirectly, to your competitors who end up bidding on those terms.
Indirectly how?
I don't doubt what you say, but just trying to understand it.
Regarding the question, I think the freebie is okay and don't have the same level of concerns. ClickTracks tells you a lot more and truly is different. Its worth the cost if you are doing the business to justify it in my opinion. It'll tell you much more than just conversion tracking. They offer a free trial - [link]
Clicktracks announced a new version is coming out next week as well.
Trying/testing yourself is always best, imo.
|
|
flyingrose
Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 10/05/2005 07:07 pm
I have the same concern that Bill has regarding what Google and Yahoo will do with the conversion data. Google already broad matches keyword phrases and I suspect they choose them based on CTRs and are even more likely to use the conversion data.
Here is an example of why conversion data is valuable to the advertiser and what Google might do with it that could end up decreasing your ROI:
You have some keyword phrases that are very targeted for your specific products. Currently the bids are low because many of your competitors are not bidding on those particular phrases and they haven't been broad matched yet.
If Google knows which keyword phrases are converting well for you they can either broad match those phrases to the more expensive general one or suggest them to your competitors or directly decide to set a higher minimum bid as they are now doing.
You may have identified and be successfully competing in a nice niche market. Others will eventually compete with you. The bids on the higher traffic keywords will go up and you are very likely to see your conversion percentages go down.
I currently see conversion rates as high as 20-100% for keyword phrases with only a few competitors drop to 2-3% for keywords where all of the competitors are bidding.
The difference in ROI between 2% on $1.00 keywords and 20-100% on $0.10 is huge.
If you're a serious advertiser with some great performing keyword phrases I would recommend investing in another tracking program. They can provide much more data to improve your ROI than just conversions.
|
|
bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
|
Posted: 10/06/2005 10:41 am
I couldn't have said it better, flyingrose. I'm definitely staying away from any conversion 'service' that Google will provide exactly for those reasons. They already know which keywords I'm buying--they don't need to know which keywords are performing the best for me or my clients.
|
|
bizguy
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 80
|
Posted: 10/06/2005 05:32 pm
How you do feel about Urchin? Google recently acquired them. It's a pretty nice package. But then, Google now has their hand in the data...
I completely agree with the concerns over using the PPC's own tracking systems. In fact, if you read Overture's "Marketing Console" agreement, you may be shocked at how heavy handed it is. I was. They basically say they have the right to share/repurpose the aggragated data with others, albeit in a "non-specifically identifiable" manner. But so what if it is anonymously conveyed? People can put two and two together. It could still damage you if it drives up your cost. I'd really like to see PPC advertisers band together and form a group that could tackle these issues with some clout.
But I have yet to see ANY tracking software that I thought was really that great--reliable, automated setup, and reasonable cost. And I've used many of them (certainly all the biggest ones). With many, I've found reliability issues, and the biggie...it's just ridiculously expensive if you get the slightest bit of traffic. And there are only 2-3 that use the various API's to append your URLs and pull in data automatically (they should ALL do that!) Wish I had something decent and reliable that would run on my own server...
On that note, what are others using for tracking, and why? What is reliable and easy to set up (automated URL appending and account info extraction ideally)?
|
|
flyingrose
Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 10/06/2005 07:33 pm
None of the tracking is completely accurate. I see probably a 15-20% difference when I manually verify tracking data against actual sales.
If the java doesn't load because the visitor leaves the page too quickly or they block or delete cookies you're going to lose some data.
The one I'm most familiar with is IndexTools. Easy to use and set up. Tracks fairly well. Reasonable cost.
|
|
bizguy
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 80
|
Posted: 10/06/2005 08:09 pm
Thanks for the tip on IndexTools. I had not heard of them before. It actually looks very good--I'll sure give them a try.
One other theory I have on data variance is this. I think a certain percentage of people search at work and then later buy at home--on a different machine--which negates all cookie tracking. Or, it might be the opposite--they surf at home at night and buy in the morning at work. I think weekend buyers produce the most complete data since they typically only have one machine available.
By the way, the original poster mentioned Clicktracks, which I think is a nice tool (they have hosted versions and also a standalone logfile analyzer version). I have the clicktracks standalone app and like it. Nice way to visualize traffic paths as a graphical overlay on top of your web site.
|
|
bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7035
|
Posted: 10/07/2005 09:53 am
How you do feel about Urchin?
I'm not about to let Google see all of my traffic and where it's really coming from. They already know enough about our sites because of the Google Toolbar and other information they collect.
|
|
flyingrose
Moderator
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
# Posts: 3361
|
Posted: 10/07/2005 03:05 pm
In IndexTools I can see people searching on one PC and buying on another. They show up as new visitors but come in on internal pages or directly in the shopping cart. I suspect they probably emailed the links to themselves.
Better tracking is another advantage to sites asking you to log in and providing services like the wish lists you see at Amazon and other larger ecommerce sites.
|
|
You are not permitted to post messages in this forum or topic, because of one or more of the following reasons:
- You have not yet logged in, or registered properly as a member
- You are a member, but no longer have posting rights.
- This is a private forum, for which you do not have permissions.
If you are a recent member, it's possible that you simply have not yet confirmed your account. Please
check your email for a message entitled 'JimWorld Forums: Confirm Your Account' and follow the instructions
contained within.
If you cannot find this message, click here to Re-Send it.
|
If you are still experiencing problem, please read the
Login Assistance
Article for some advice on what may be causing your login not to work properly.
|
Switch to Advanced Editor and ...
Create a New Topic
or Reply to this Thread
|
|
