Robyn
Joined: Nov 18, 2002
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 2002-Nov-21 02:14
Does anyone have an opinion on page ranking software ? eg Agent Web RankingI've been reading lots on the use of automated ranking software and how SE's feel about them, and I have tried a number of the freebies with surprisingly widely varying and inaccurate results. AWR was recommended as it behaves as a manual search would and the results were dead accurate. Are there other ranking software applications that perform in the same manner that won't upset the SE's ? And in your humble opinions, would a subscription to a ranking service like AWR be a worthwhile investment given the time that it would save ? Thanks Robyn
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-22 22:11
I hope you are not assuming that AWR use is undetectable by SEs. It is, despite the claims.From Google's list of Do's and Don'ts: "Send automated queries to Google in an attempt to monitor your site's ranking" If you use page rank checking tools such as AWR too much, in Google's opinion, they will take action against you.
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Robyn
Joined: Nov 18, 2002
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 2002-Nov-24 19:53
Hmmmm, so what would be an "acceptable" level ? Once a month ? Shouldn't really need to check it more often than that anyway, should we ?And I suppose that everyone here would agree that doing our own manual checking would be the best approach ?
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-24 20:45
Once or twice a month should be no problem. If you are checking many search terms (eg 50+) then I would break the checking into parts eg if 80 terms, then check 40 per day. Also, ensure you set the timer to check in Google's less busy period (after midnight PCT) and with time spacing between each check.
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Absolut
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts:
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 11:55
<quote>I hope you are not assuming that AWR use is undetectable by SEs. It is, despite the claims.</quote>It is DETECTABLE, despite the claims <quote>From Google's list of Do's and Don'ts: "Send automated queries to Google in an attempt to monitor your site's ranking"</quote> This is from the "Don'ts" part. <quote>If you use page rank checking tools such as AWR too much, in Google's opinion, they will take action against you.</quote> It's GOOGLE who will take action against you, not the tool such as AWR. So there you go, just to clarify OAC's lack-of-sleep induced advice
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Absolut
Joined: Eons Ago
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 11:57
Sorry about the quotes thing but you get the idea.Yes, it is generally seen as VERY UNKIND to use these programs to occupy the Google servers with queries. Unless they're about to release their monthly query count
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 21:27
Hmmm. As "Google" was the subject of the prior phrase and the only group mentioned in the sentence (AWR being an application), I would have thought that it would have been clear that "they" referred to "Google". Evidently not.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 21:28
However, I take your point about the detectable part. AWR is detectable.
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Robyn
Joined: Nov 18, 2002
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 21:37
OK ... so how would you go about checking your rankings of a portal website with approx 3000 pages, consisting of 11 sitelets with many pages underneath that we want to try to draw visitors to directly rather than have to navigate through the entire site ?Being a portal, we cover a lot of information in our pages and would like to check the rankings of at least the index page of each of the sitelets, which would contain many important keywords and phrases. To do this manually would require an awful lot of time and probably a staff member full time to cover. Any suggestions ? Thanks Robyn
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 23:08
"index page of each of the sitelets, which would contain many important keywords and phrases."It is not the number of pages that is the problem, but rather the number of search terms (phrases). As suggested above, do 40 terms a day in the Google non peak times, spaced a few minutes apart and search each term once a month. I wouldn't be searching more than 120 terms. You should be able to configure your software appropriately. Remember - automated searches breach Google's TOS so the advice I am giving you you be treated the same way as advice about speeding on the highways (i.e. the cops are unlikely to write you a ticket if you are doing just a few miles an hour over the speed limit but that doesn't 100% certainly mean they won't). Most people will advise you to never use an automated rank checker with Google.
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Robyn
Joined: Nov 18, 2002
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 2002-Nov-27 23:19
So would it be safe to assume that I could use AWR with the other SE's ?Is it just Google that objects ? I could possibly set up AWR to check the other SE's and do Google myself manually once a month. This would alleviate at least some of the burden. Does this sound like a plan ? Thanks Robyn
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2002-Nov-28 07:41
Yep
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Robyn
Joined: Nov 18, 2002
# Posts: 15
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Posted: 2002-Nov-28 19:40
Groovey !Thanks for your help OAC. Robyn
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22swordfish
Joined: Oct 08, 2002
# Posts: 3
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Posted: 2002-Dec-06 15:31
I've used AWR quite a lot, and quite like it.I unfortunatley learned the hard way about Google's dislike of automated rank checking software. I don't use it on Google any more, but also don't for AOL or Yahoo, as it will check web page results and therefore query google. Its a pain, but I would recommend caution.
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merkury
Joined: Sep 14, 2000
# Posts: 20
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Posted: 2003-Jan-27 21:05
apparently i'm not the only one who gave up on this a year or two ago and has done it manually ever since?
i have felt a little "outdated" from time to time, continually entering every search phrase and clicking "next"
just slightly tedious
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steb
Joined: Aug 16, 2001
# Posts: 157
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Posted: 2003-Jan-28 02:13
try the legal google rankings tool I made at http://www.stebsoft.com/google/
it uses the google API, so you wont get into any trouble
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fab@agentwebranking.com
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
# Posts: 4
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Posted: 2003-Jan-30 00:33
Hi,
I have developped AgentWebRanking software and I will try to answer your questions:
"I have tried a number of the freebies with surprisingly widely varying and inaccurate results. AWR was recommended as it behaves as a manual search would and the results were dead accurate."
To produce accurate and reliable ranking reports a ranking software must:
1) Emulate a real manual search through your browser. It should work like if you were manually checking your positions through a browser. If the ranking software does not emulate a real manual search you will get inaccurate results.
2) The "search engine library" must be up to date. Search engines frequently change their appearance. This will cause Agentwebranking or any other ranking software to produce erroneous analyzes. This is why "search engine library" of any ranking software must be always up to date.
This is why we do have our own Search Engines Research Center. Each time a search engine modifies the way it displays results our Search Engines Research Center automatically receives information about it and we update AgentWebRanking search engines library. So we do not need users to report modification to update.
"About Google Tos"
Yes it is against google Tos to use automated request. This is why our clients can decide to select google or not through agentwebranking.
If they decide to select google, they can select the number of requests they will send to google.
"About Google detecting automated request"
Yes google can detect ranking software that do not emulate a real manual search. Google has blocked IP adresses of people using software that do not emulate a real manual search.
If you need more info do not hesitate to contact me.
Fabien - AgentWebRanking Software
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2003-Jan-30 06:34
Google can detect agentwebranking, whether or not it " Emulate(s) a real manual search through your browser". Simple pattern matching will do it - ask any spook.
Don't believe this guy's hype. That is not to say that his product isn't useful - just don't use it for Google.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6806
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Posted: 2003-Jan-31 10:58
Actually, I should have said " just don't OVERuse it for Google".
They won't penalize reasonable use of position checking tools, despite their use being contrary to Google's TOS.
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MakeMeTop
Joined: Jul 05, 2000
# Posts: 1714
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Posted: 2003-Feb-02 10:54
It is worth noting that automated queries are now against AllTheWeb's Terms and Conditions. I quote "You may not send automated queries to AlltheWeb.com without FAST's prior agreement."
I have now removed ATW from my rank checker facilites along with Google (removed years ago). It is rumoured that INK and others may follow suit. To cover this, I am stopping all rank checking for client sites in February. To be frank, since I started showing clients the number of uniques, the keywords they have been found for and the number of clicks each key phrase received - they have mainly stopped obsessing about ranks.
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