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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-20 23:19
Thanks for your thoughts. I do not agree with them but you are entitled to your opinion.Unfortunately, you appear to be unfamiliar with the guidelines for this forum or perhaps believe they should only be applied selectively. The guidelines are set by Jim and I cannot change them - I only try to ensure that that they are followed. If you believe the forum rules should be changed then write to Jim Wilson at jim@jimworld.com . If you believe that I am going outside of the guidelines, then write to Jim. I am only a volunteer here and have strict guidelines to which I am required to adhere. Sorry I am unable to help you any further. I hope this explains things more to your satisfaction. HTH
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JQ
Staff
Joined: Mar 11, 2001
# Posts: 2765
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Posted: 2001-Dec-20 23:32
Bertiek,I'm not here to defend OAC, but I think you're off-base. In the past month I count 8 thread locks. Granted, 5 have been in the past week, but that's how it goes with forums. BTW, people get banned, threads get locked. Or deleted, at the moderator's discretion. And I haven't really noticed any deletes. When they are locked, OAC has clearly stated the reason for doing so. Of those 8 locks, 6 were for either content violation or duplicate threads, and 2 were for rude responses. All of these threads were in violation of the rules of this forum, which are clearly spelled out. As a moderator at another forum with over 30,000 members (mostly teenaged computer geeks) where things can get pretty rowdy, it's my opinion that OAC has been very lenient and fair here.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-20 23:49
PS. There is often a lengthy email exchange between me and the person not adhering to the guidelines, before I take action.As you are unaware odf such correspondence, I understand that sometimes my actions can appear somewhat overhanded. Must run - I am off to get my jackboots reheeled.
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bertiek
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
# Posts: 21
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 00:00
Thank you OAC. I appreciate your quick and concise response.I understand you are constricted by the rules as set out by Jim. My comments were mainly inspired by the thread started by Exel http://gethighforums.com/Forum13/HTML/003685.html
I presume you locked the thread due to commments made by Exel. I think that the views expressed by Clickit were no more offensive than those expressed by Exel and I think Exel replied in an appropriate manner considering what had been said before. I don't think the reviewed should be anymore policed than the reviewer. I don't think anything Exel said after Clickit's comments was unjustified considering the comments that Clickit had made. I give as an example (of a point no more harsh than anything Exel has said) "Find the hidden link..." This is not a game site. If you have something to say, say it. I find this rather annoying. Delete it I don't consider this constructive criticism. However I believe that neither party has made any particularly offensive comments and they should be free to view their opinions. I understand that certain rules need to be adhered to, but this particular forum is a valuable resource for fellow web designers and I'd rather it not be policed in such a way that I feel that I have to censor my own comments for fear of offending big brother. Jims Rules • rude, disrespectful, abusive, vulgar, hateful or harassing posts -- whether inquiries or reviews • adult or sexually-oriented material, whether on the site or available via a link on the site • affiliate programs • get-rich-quick schemes • scams • pay-to-surf sites • advertisements, "offers," solicitations or inducements of any kind, including offers sign up, "try out" or get anything, free or otherwise.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 00:24
Don't forget the other rules, to which you, and all the other members, agreed to before you were granted posting privileges:Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers if you agree to abide by our rules below, you should press the "Agree" button, which will enable you to register. If you do not agree, press the "Cancel" button. Considering the real-time nature of these forums, it is impossible for us to review messages as they happen or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of the Search Engine Forums and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of the owners of these forums. Before taking action as a result of information posted in the forums, take the time to research and evaluate the accuracy of that information. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact a Staff member immediately by email. We have the ability and right to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use the Search Engine Forums to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, rude, disrespectful, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by the owners of the Search Engine Forums. Although the operators of the Search Engine Forums do not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at the Search Engine Forums reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. Further, we reserve the right to make any modification we deem necessary or desirable to any message posted to the forums. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless the owners of the Search Engine Forums and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). The owners of the Search Engine Forums also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. Please note that advertisements of any type, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate in the Search Engine Forums. - Do not post any links to adult content in the Forums or in your profile. - Do not show disrespect for any Staff or Member. - Flaming (rudeness, hostility) will not be tolerated. - Do not post "signatures" on your posts. No need to list your name, email address or URL. They are already in your profile. - Do not use returns at the end of each line. Only use the "Return" or "Enter" key between paragraphs. - Check your email address carefully. If it is incorrect you will not be able to receive your Forum password which is emailed to you when you register. You only need to register once to gain access to both the Search Engine Forums and the Get High (Traffic) Forums. Use the same user name and password for both. By registering and making posts to the Search Engine Forums you agree to abide by the Forum rules, both stated and unstated. Further you agree that any messages and their complete contents, become the sole and exclusive property of the operators of the Search Engine Forums. We have the sole and exclusive rights to modify, delete, or make any use whatsoever both in the Forums and in any other location and medium, of all content posted to these Forums. I see the word "disrespectful" there. Finally, I have a different interpretation of ClickIts' and Exels' comments than you. I guess we must agree to disagree over their interpretation (and what is disrespectful and what is not).
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bertiek
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
# Posts: 21
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 00:38
I do understand the rules that are in place. I just think they are being enforced in an extremely authoritarian way. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but it appears that freedom of speech doesn't mean very much. I know in the scheme of things my opinions are pretty insignificant but I'd like to participate in this kind of forum without being banned for saying something is s**t of c**p. Whether my (or anyones) comments are justified or not. I think it should be up to the other members of the forum to say I am a (c**t), idiot, rather than just banning me. Perhaps my views are inconsistent with the beliefs and ideals of this forum and if this is the case I'd appreciate it if you could direct me somewhere else. I'd rather this didn't happen as this seems to be one of, if not the best around. Regards, Bertie
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JQ
Staff
Joined: Mar 11, 2001
# Posts: 2765
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 01:23
quote: I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but it appears that freedom of speech doesn't mean very much.
Funny, that's what I hear a lot at the forum I moderate. But you have to understand that this is not a public forum where any "constitutional rights" to free speech or such apply. This is a private forum run by Jim, for our benefit. His forum, his rules. We are just guests in his house. quote: I know in the scheme of things my opinions are pretty insignificant but I'd like to participate in this kind of forum without being banned for saying something is s**t of c**p.
No worries there, the forum filter edits cuss words.  quote: Whether my (or anyones) comments are justified or not. I think it should be up to the other members of the forum to say I am a (c**t), idiot, rather than just banning me.
Again, this forum is not a democracy. The inmates don't get to vote people off the island. quote: Perhaps my views are inconsistent with the beliefs and ideals of this forum and if this is the case I'd appreciate it if you could direct me somewhere else.I'd rather this didn't happen as this seems to be one of, if not the best around.
There are numerous other webmaster forums with site critique areas. I frequent several. But this one is my favorite.  I hope you'll stick around and contribute some reviews of your own. I've found that eyeing other sites critically has really helped me be a better web designer.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 01:42
Bertie,Thanks for your thoughts but I don't make the rules and I have written guidelines from Jim, that I am required to follow, on how I should enforce them. As I said above, if you have a problem, write to the forum owner, Jim. Meantime, I'm off to practice my Nazi salutes.
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bertiek
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
# Posts: 21
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 01:48
I understand what you're saying Jerome but I don't think you're helping this debate by infering Jim is God and anything anyone says in these forums that might be contradictory to the forums rules should go away and find another forum without any discussion. In my opinion and many others, discussion is the only way one arrives at a compromise. I'm sure Jim wouldn't just ban me because I swore(cussed). This forum is on the web so it is therefore open to everyone. I appreciate the fact that you have to have rules but I'm not sure banning everyone who has views that the the main posters disagree with is the right way to go. Initially I disagreed with the banning of some threads by OAC and I still do. I'm pleased that OAC replyed and explained why he thought it was appropriate, which is fair enough. But I don't think I should be ostrasized (or banned) for voicing an opinion whether rightly or wrongly.Regards, Bertie
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:03
Bertie,No one is ostracising you or banning you, OK? You have made it abundantly clear that you disagree with what I have done and that is your right. But now you are starting to "flog a dead horse". Can we now please move forward with reviews on other sites?  If you would review some other people's sites I am sure they would be very grateful. Thanks
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Janet Berg
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 13403
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:07
bertiek, you have the right to opinions here, even the right to show us how honest you are "..., I tried to send you this in E-mail but you're GHF E-mail didn't seem to work. ..."This web site is privately owned, therefore your crys about "freedom of speech" do not apply here. OAC is a terrific and dedicated moderator here. He enforces the rules so that everyone feels comfortable posting. Believe it or not many people do not enjoy flame wars, nor want to ask for a review only to be insulted.
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bertiek
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
# Posts: 21
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:16
You've both been eloquent and fair. I was just trying to promote debate on a very important and interesting topic. I'm glad you have both replied to me fairly and respectfully. All I hope is that you don't chastise me or lock the thread for saying something is s**t or someones review is s**t.regards, Bertie.
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:29
I have my finger already poised over the delete button
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bertiek
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
# Posts: 21
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:33
Alright, OAC,Suck my f**kin fat c**k you c**t faced w**ker. You're just taking the piss out of me now aren't you. Bertie
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OAC
Staff
Joined: Jan 25, 2001
# Posts: 6809
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Posted: 2001-Dec-21 02:38
Aha, your true colors revealed at last.Thread locked.
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