cabbagehead
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 532
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 05:22
Do not sign up for site match! Its completely deceptive to the end-user, completely unfair to the webmaster - it benefits no one but Yahoo! We should all seriously consider staying away from this s**t in order to send a message to Yahoo that they cannot take us for every sent that we make! I hope everyone will think long and hard before supporting this program, what it represents, and what it's implications are.
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markiting
Joined: Feb 22, 2001
# Posts: 177
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 05:38
I agree, if this type offering becomes standard, let the real fire-sale begin leaving only those with the deep pockets in business.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 07:44
Cabbagehead, could you do a quick expanded outline of why you think the Program is not beneficial to the public and the webmasters.
thanks 
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cabbagehead
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 532
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 08:51
Through a program called SiteMatch, Yahoo is apparently going to charge $50 per listing for paid inclusion (less for bulk PFI inclusions) but then they're also going to charge $.30 per click on top of the PFI. But this is not for their sponsored listings, this is for the top listed "search results". "sponsored listings" will be bidded PPCs. So, there are a couple of issues here: (1) they're now going to charge PFI + PPC, and who knows if they'll honor the PFI fees already paid for Ink, but more importantly - (2) they're trying to pass off these high rate paid listings as "search results". Basically - we're talking about an overpriced Looksmart model, but on a much higher profile that Looksmart.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 09:15
So, this new program would give preferential treatment in the in the search results for those in the program and place them above the free search results and the public wouldn't know...
OR are they jumbled in throughout the search results depending on the engines ranking algo?
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cabbagehead
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 532
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 09:22
Here's an article that spells things out a bit more:
http://www.content.overture.com/d/USm/ays/sm.jhtml
...let me know your thoughts after your take a look.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 09:42
Well my thoughts - their business model stinks.
Thanks for the link and I hope this thread helps to educate webmasters and marketers that are members here about the new advertising "offer".
I think that the power of acquisition has gone to Yahoo!'s head and that they have little regard for anything except a seemingly invincable need to exploit search for all it is worth.
And furthermore - if they aim on using the databases of alltheweb, altavista & Inktomi as a kick start to their new engine and then dropping "free" listings and indexing by crawl altogether over time, they will be doing their site users an incredible injustice.
At this stage nobody seems to have accurate answers for their long term goals in this regard, BUT it's something to watch as they go.
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Dorian
Joined: Aug 13, 2001
# Posts: 533
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 13:36
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is a bad business model. A good business model would increase the revenue irrespective of the quality of the search results and they'll almost certainly achieve that this way.
Google has proved high quality and profitability can go together. But most companies don't pursue this business model.
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Keensurfer
Joined: Nov 05, 1999
# Posts: 885
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 13:51
My business partner told me 5 years ago that Internet Search for commercial listings would eventually go the way of the Yellow Pages. Looks like we are about half a footstep from his premonition coming true. I hate to admit it, but it does make business sense. I think PPC model will eventually die and the top spots will be sold just like they are in every other advertising medium. When was the last time you saw a webmaster "sneak in" a TV commercial during a SuperBowl? Doesn't happen. Yet for years web e-tailers have flourished because the Internet which began as a free information exchange medium was set up that way. It's changing before our eyes. If you have solid business models...adapt. If you don't you'll get run over. I know that it make sense to advertise on Yahoo because they send us sales that result in a fair ROI. cabbagehead, I hate to say it but this is one change that can't be protested successfully. It makes sense for advertisers, consumers, and Yahoo. All that being said, it will leave open the niche market for a search engine that finds the diamonds-in-the-rough however, that search engine will have to make money somehow. How do you propose they do it?
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 14:46
It's fine to make money, there is no doubting that, but I think that there is a limit on how that money is made. Your examples of off-line advertising are not really an accurate comparison.
i.e. yellow pages.. all companies that have a phone line ARE LISTED and findable with expanded advertising if they pay (quite distinctive from the other normal listings).
TV ads... are KNOWN as ads
SuperBowl ads... are KNOWN as ads.
Anyway I guess the need for more regional and industry specific directories increases as the global search engines carry on trying to take over the world
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emi_b
Joined: Nov 21, 2003
# Posts: 347
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 15:22
Currently I hate the idea of having to pay to get listed in Yahoo, but all it will take is my competitors to pay Yahoo, and thus have my free #1 spot taken away from me. I hate how it will only take one competitor to make me have to pay for Yahoo's "services". It is inevitable that we will all have to end up paying for it. Yahoo figured out a way to gradually transition search results into paid results.
We will all gradully notice our decreasing placement in the search engine and thus fork over the money to Yahoo to get our business back. It's inevitable.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 15:34
I don't know that it is inevitable, I think that some sort of balance can be struck - after all Google held reign for quite some time with a very good mix of advertising and free listings...was profitable and everyone *was* happy. To shoot for paid only from a free model and push out those that cannot pay, just wouldn't really make sense if a search engine wants to be popular.. like google was/is.
So, I guess we just need to wait and see about it all. If you are well optimised and ranking in yahoo, then I don't see a reason to pay.
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MakeMeTop
Joined: Jul 05, 2000
# Posts: 1714
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 16:27
>have my free #1 spot taken away from me..
Provided your page is better, that just isn't going to happen IMHO!
I've been doing PFI for years. Sometimes I rocket to the top, sometimes it's the first page, sometimes I just take a dive. The other sites have too much off page authority for any amount to tweaking to beat! The same will happen here or the results will become pretty poor.
Don't panic until it happens. My honest opinion is that it won't - certainly in the short term.
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cabbagehead
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 532
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:03
>Provided your page is better, that just isn't going to happen IMHO!
MakeMeTop - That still just doesn't make sense to me - that explanation makes sense for PFI but not for PPC. Because they're charging $.30 per click, its not just a one-time fee ... they have to give something to the payer in order to keep them paying. I just can't imagine that it makes a lot of sense to provide nothing in return for the $.30, once the person has paid the base inclusion fee. Well, I guess we just have to wait and see - but I expect we'll be seeing some unfair competition from paid inclusions in the near future. 
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golfnutguy1976
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:04
So, does anyone have a clear answer to "excell's" original question....
************"So, this new program would give preferential treatment in the in the search results for those in the program and place them above the free search results and the public wouldn't know...
OR are they jumbled in throughout the search results depending on the engines ranking algo?"***************
I'm wondering the same thing. All of overture's materials and articles are unclear as to whether enrolling in site match just get's you included in the search results or if you actually get boosted up in the rankings.
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:11
golfnut - the answer at this stage is that SiteMatch (PFI & PPC together as a double banger) will not give you higher ranking or placement over free listings.
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golfnutguy1976
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:13
Thanks!
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:21
So, this new program would give preferential treatment in the in the search results for those in the program and place them above the free search results and the public wouldn't know..
Excell - Do we know the real answer to this yet?
I'm wondering... How could Yahoo possibly justify the 30 cent click charge without providing preferential ranking treatment?
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excell
Staff
Joined: Mar 19, 2001
# Posts: 14512
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:28
jb - sorry no.. I have no further insight into the mind of yahoo than what is accessible to all.
As far as I know Yahoo plans to take the money for this program and mix it in with the "search results" with no public awareness & no preferential treatment.
I think that is the main concern here, not whether or not an SEO firm can use it to their advantage and make it work for them to continue to spin $s (no offense to anyone please, just speaking my current thoughts).
There may well be some sort of advantages to the system yet to be revealed, I don't see it as yet though.
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Keensurfer
Joined: Nov 05, 1999
# Posts: 885
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Posted: 2004-Mar-03 17:58
>everyone *was* happy
Can't agree with that at all. Imagine yourself being a reputable company with a nice expensive flash website that google's software doesn't crawl well or index perhaps at all. You wouldn't be happy. Add to that, the fact that you are a Google Adwords customer and I think the result is a very upset customer. Maybe most in the Search Engine community were happy, but that's our small community.
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