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Pay Per Click please help (In: Pay Per Click - Google/Yahoo & Others)
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jimish
Joined: Nov 26, 2003
# Posts: 68
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Posted: 2004-Nov-03 17:06
I have a problem with Yahoo!, MSN, etc. that has been going on since the LookSmart squeeze for more $$$'s. Once I didn't agree to Looksmart's new terms of pay-per-click after I paid twice to be listed in their directory (once to get in, and again to change the crappy keywords they gave me). Ever since I dropped their program, the main site has been dropped or filtered out of MSN, Yahoo! and other Inktomi supplied SE's. I paid for our main pages to be included in Inktomi through PositionTech a couple years ago, and when our pages were indexed, no matter what the search was, they would come out dead last. I complained to PositionTech, and they said "no way", so I had them change the domain to one of our parked domains, and sure enough, we showed up on the first or second page for every term, even though there were no links to that domain, only to the main domain name. Then I dropped PositionTech when that ran out. The problem is Yahoo!, MSN and others pick up all of our subdomains, but refuse to pick up the main domain which has more than 1,200 good quality links pointing at it. Consequently, we're always behind our competition, whereas in Google, we're always #1 or in the top 3 because it recognizes the backlinks. I tried a 301 redirect for all of our subdomains a few weeks ago, but they're still showing up, and the main domain is not. Should I pay Sitematch to include our main pages and take the chance that I'll get the same mediocre results? Or, should I wait longer to see if the redirects work? I'm very much against paying for anything with search engines due to the bad experiences I've had...once you pay, you either keep on paying and pay what they want, or they punish you. Other sites I've done do fine, and I've never paid a dime to search engines for anything for those. What should I do?
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StupidScript2
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
# Posts: 183
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Posted: 2004-Nov-06 00:13
Should I pay Sitematch to include our main pages
If the Yahoo bot has been hitting your server, then your position will not improve by paying for Site Match ... plus you will be paying for any click on a link in the "natural" listings after subscribing.
Subscribing to Site Match does nothing for your positions, that is strictly an algorithm function.
Is your code squeaky clean (validated)
Are there appropriate "robots.txt" files in your root directory and in all subdirectories?
Are you inadvertently blocking spiders with an .htaccess file or in your server's configuration?
Once a spider finds you, they'll typically grab everything they can get their hands on, unless they are being excluded or confused.
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jimish
Joined: Nov 26, 2003
# Posts: 68
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Posted: 2004-Nov-09 17:39
Slurp is hitting the site regularly, but the serps always linked to parked domains that are pointing at the main site. I recently put redirects from these domains to the main domain in a .htaccess file in the root folder. The only subdirectories contain images. It's not a matter of code validation or the subdomains would rank poorly as well. My guess is that either inktomi will begin to recognize the main domain with all of its inbound links, or drop everything altogether. I know the main domain is being penalized for buying into Looksmart, then Positiontech, and then dropping out from their programs. So, as far as I can see, no one should ever pay for SE inclusion or per click unless they plan to do this forever. It appears as though a site that never pays fares much better than one that does, and then stops. If this is the policy, they I, for one, will never pay again. I'd rather get my traffic from links and directories where things are more dependable. If paying provided a benefit, and stopping only removed that benefit without punishing a site, then I would see it as a valuable service that I would use as necessary. But the punishment system causes me to recommend that no one ever pay search engines again, unless that's your permanent plan for the site.
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2004-Nov-14 00:41
I've always read that yahoo penalties are pretty much permanent, no way to appeal them. Yahoo has a lot of problems with 301's anyway, I've had a rebranded site up for 3 months now and yahoo still has it listed as the old domain name, stuff ranks fine, but the new domain name is nowhere to be found in yahoo. Lots of incoming links to new domain too, some for old, that's a well known bug in yahoo, so doing 301's may not be helping that much. There's a small risk with that possibly with google, I'm not sure about it, but doing 301's from a bunch of sites may cause problems, just something I remember reading, don't take my word as fact.
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buddhu
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
# Posts: 56
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Posted: 2004-Nov-15 10:50
"I'm not sure about it, but doing 301's from a bunch of sites may cause problems, just something I remember reading, don't take my word as fact."
I'd be surprised if that were the case. Google seems to handle 301s ok generally, so there is no SEO spam benefit to using 301s. If anything, it should tell Google that someone has seen the error of their ways and is trying to correct a dupe content issue...
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2004-Nov-15 20:22
Google handles 301's fine, that's not the question, it's if Yahoo can handle them, it can't, and hasn't, for quite some time now. They claimed they were working on the problem some months ago, maybe 6-8, but it's still not fixed as far as I can see. this thread shows that this issue is still a problem. What should be and what is unfortunately are not always the same. I think Yahoo just isn't that interested in putting too many resources into their search technology.
Unfortunately 301's have many other uses than seeing the error of your ways.
But in Yahoo's case it's just a messed up algorhythm I think.
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jimish
Joined: Nov 26, 2003
# Posts: 68
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Posted: 2004-Nov-19 17:55
Thanks for the input. The redirects are strictly from parked domains that are merely pointing at the main URL. So far, no problem with Google. Yahoo! still only points to the parked domains...and I'm getting people who are linking to those, which could cause a problem with Google. My guess is that Yahoo! had the punishment filter on for dropping Looksmart, and then Positiontech when I dropped them. However, looking at the new MSN beta search engine, we're at the top of the results for hundreds of search phrases, and they all point to our actual domain. So, Yahoo! and any other search engine that punishes sites for dropping their paid programs can take a hike. The idea should be that you get a worthwhile benefit for paying, and if you don't want the program anymore, then you go back to your former standings. If they're going to punish sites, then why would anyone be foolish enough to risk trying their programs? I'd use paid placement as needed from time to time, but at the risk of being punished or actually banned if you stop, forget it.
On another note, does anyone have any idea when MSN will be running the beta version on their home page?
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lizardz
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
# Posts: 1394
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Posted: 2004-Nov-19 20:07
does anyone have any idea when MSN will be running the beta version on their home page
Not anytime soon, that beta site crashes a high percent of the time, with only seo's using it, so it's not ready for prime time yet, may be a while.
Closest is January, furthest is July from what I've read.
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