bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7033
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Posted: 06/07/2004 12:37 pm
There's a scam out there, and I'll be the first to tell you that it's really a scam against website owners--and a lot of innocent webmasters (just like you and me) are falling victim to it. I'm hoping that by posting and exposing this scam that you will be more educated as a webmaster and as a consumer.
Here's how the "Buying and Selling Stolen PageRank Scam" works and what these scummy people are doing:
The fraudster buys a domain name and sets up a website Directory. But, before they make the directory available for public view, they steal the PageRank of an innocent website. They do this by redirecting their directory's domain name to the innocent website that has a high Pagerank. By doing a redirect to, for example, a website that has a PR8, Google thinks (rightly so) that the Directory's domain name has a PR8. Once Google has assigned the backlinks and the PR to the redirected Directory domain, the Directory domain owner 'turns on' the Directory--and it appears to have a PageRank of 8.
Redirecting a domain name is not the problem. The problem is when the Directory owner attempts to scam innocent webmasters into thinking that they are getting a link from a PageRank 8 website (whereas the PR has been stolen from another website). In many cases, the Directory owner is selling links from their website on the premise that it's a link from a PR8 site. The next month, the Directory will most likely not have a high PageRank. Therefore, the innocent webmaster who thinks they have bought a link from a high PageRank website has been scammed.
What's an innocent webmaster to do?There are tell-tale signs that a directory or website that you're going to get a link from has stolen PageRank from another website.
First, check the backlinks of the Directory or website that's going to link to you. If you cannot find links that are suppposed to be linking to the Directory, then become suspicious. Look some more at random, and you might see a pattern. It's very easy to expose sites' backlinks like this if you use a tool like Optilink that will analyze backlinks for you. In Optilink specifically, if the "target links =0" on the majority of these backlinks, then be suspicious.
Second, if the backlinks of the Directory or website that's going to link to you has a huge number of backlinks (thousands or hundreds of thousands) and you've never heard of this directory or website, then be suspicious. Check more backlinks and see if there's a pattern.
Third, if you've never heard of the directory or website that's going to link to you and it has links from extremely well-known websites, is there a reason why you've never heard of it?
Fourth, if you receive an unsolicited email that states that you can purchase or get a reciprocal link from a high-PR website, then be suspicious. Most real high-PR websites or directories (like DMOZ, Yahoo!, or niche directories) won't send you an email. In fact, in most cases, you have to beg, plead to, and offer your first-born son just to get into their directory. They won't be contacting you by email. If you get such an email, check the backlinks out thoroughly like I suggest in the first three tips.
Lastly, if you see advertisements that state that you can purchase or get a recprical link from a high-PR website and it sounds intriguing, check the backlinks thoroughly like I suggest in the first three tips here.
Buying and selling stolen PageRank is definitely a scam, and those doing it are feeding off of innocent webmasters. In fact, as a consumer who almost got suckered in, it really should be illegal for them to do this--it's downright fraudulent.
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greenleaves
Joined: Mar 21, 2002
# Posts: 720
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Posted: 06/07/2004 03:01 pm
it really should be illegal for them to do this--it's downright fraudulent.
I totally agree that is is BS that should not be taken seriously. I will even go to saying it should be illegal. But fraude?
If they promise and deliver a link from a site with high PR, regardless of how they got the PR, this is not fraude.
I can understand this technique to get high pr should be consider ilegitemate, and I believe google will catch on quickly. But is there really anything in the SE's TOS that specifically, other than the command "Thou shall not trick thy SE", says you cannot do this?
BTW; I am not trying to defend people that do this, but there is a difference between fraude and bad business policies. I do appreciate the warning though.
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7033
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Posted: 06/07/2004 03:21 pm
and deliver a link from a site with high PR
This is where I have the problem. They will not deliver a link from a site with a high PR. It only appears that they will deliver it. That's the whole issue.
It appears that they will deliver but they won't. The stolen PageRank will not last until the next update. And since it takes a while for PR to be updated, by the time the innocent webmaster gets around to checking or finding this out, the directory site doesn't care anymore as they either have gotten the innocent webmaster's money or received a reciprocal link.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3671
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Posted: 06/07/2004 04:17 pm
Wow, more linking scams to be concerned about. When will it end?
Actually the PR gotten is fraudulent. The PR is not real even if it appears real. Dictionary definition of a fraud is: deceit, trickery
... of which that is precisely what is going on here. That makes the word "fraudulent" applicable.
I'd like to know how the domain name manages to snatch the PR of the target site. That part does not make sense to me. PR is suppose to be tied to a particular domain.
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cianuro
Joined: Jan 22, 2004
# Posts: 164
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Posted: 06/07/2004 04:47 pm
WOW. I was totally not aware of that. Thanks for the heads up.
I cannot believe there is never a decrease to the amount of scum on the internet.
Thank goodness for websites like this!
thanks again.
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jbgilbert
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
# Posts: 321
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Posted: 06/07/2004 05:26 pm
This is where I have the problem. They will not deliver a link from a site with a high PR. It only appears that they will deliver it....... It appears that they will deliver but they won't. The stolen PageRank will not last until the next update......
Bhartzer,
I'm with you on this one as far as it being a scam. "Fraud", "illegal"... who knows -- only a court case and a few dozen lawyers would ever be able to decide that for sure.
However, what bothers me most is that MANY people do not have the expertise needed to avoid these scams.
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edit_pal
Joined: Nov 27, 2003
# Posts: 93
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Posted: 06/07/2004 06:50 pm
Greed is the reason many people get ripped off. Page rank is the sum total of people's opinion of your site.
If you are a leader in your subject, people will link to you.
Directory sites will use your description and link as content. Cream floats.
Purchasing better ranking doesn't jive with the culture of the internet and amounts to something the search engines would prefer you don't do.
Without labeling this activity a nasty name, let's just say for certain that it is questionable activity.
With this in mind I have supported benevolant directories, (run by real people and who also provide real content because they obviously care about the subject at hand).
I have however not swapped links with the corporate directory sites who simply corner keywords then farm for links in an effort to sell advertising. I know how hard it is to get ranking when you have real content and I personally don't respect it, so I don't support them.
Hosting a directory will soon cease to be a viable way to make income on the internet. (apoligies to those who run them...nothing personal). Real content is becoming necessary for ranking in the large search engines.
jmho L
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Rezac
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
# Posts: 811
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Posted: 06/07/2004 09:11 pm
So what's the loss? Money? PR?
People shouldn't buy links. Period.
If a site can't get links from people unless there's money invovled, that tells me it's not truely worthy of ranking high, sorry if this offends.
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EyesCoffee
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
# Posts: 204
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Posted: 06/07/2004 10:15 pm
hmmm.... for argumentative sakes let's say the directory owner redirected to google and got a 10.
I recall a issue a while back where a travel site was redirecting to earthlink, then changing the site to a keyword stuffed spam center and getting high rankings. That example always made me think that even though the site has changed, the site will have a pr10 until the google PR update. And only at the end of the month will the page become useless.
If this is true, then is this directory fradulent? It's a high PR site, for at least a month. Then it's the webmasters decision to delete his/her listings when the PR goes down.
Like greenleaves i'm not defending the directory owners, but also don't feel they are doing anything wrong. Their directory IS a pr10 (or whatever) for a month.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3671
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Posted: 06/07/2004 10:27 pm
It's not truly a PR10 even if it shows that way for a short while. It's a fake PR rating. Fake = fraud. Remember, I'm not talking about the legal definition of that word, but more on the raw meaning of that word. The PR that is somehow stolen is fraudulent because it tricks the person into thinking that the site has a high PR when in fact it does not.
I still do not understand how a site can snag another site's PR rating since the PR is domain dependent.
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HAJITH
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 280
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Posted: 06/07/2004 11:24 pm
Its really good stuff. Here the point is the Webmaster can use his/her high fraud PR for a month or so or till the next google page rank update to rank high in Google other than competitors. With in this one month he can get some good links form quality sites and directories. SO in the next google PR update he may lose the fraud PR but he will get some real PR as he got some links to his site. So he will enjoy the some high rankings for some period of time.
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7033
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Posted: 06/08/2004 07:58 am
I'd like to know how the domain name manages to snatch the PR of the target site. That part does not make sense to me. PR is suppose to be tied to a particular domain.
EyesCoffee nailed it on the head--it's the same way the travel site did it, with redirects.
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Curt
Joined: Eons Ago
# Posts: 3671
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Posted: 06/08/2004 02:33 pm
So basically, I could set up a domain called: "dummydomain.com" and point it to www.yahoo.com and get a PR9? Is that what we are saying here?
To counter this trick, I suppose we are going to have to check our link partners who try to trick us into a link trade by going to the registrar and seeing when it was they registered their new domain. If it's less than one month old, the high PR is bogus.
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bhartzer
Administrator
Joined: Jun 08, 2000
# Posts: 7033
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Posted: 06/08/2004 02:50 pm
Is that what we are saying here?
Yes. Exactly.
If it's less than a month old, though, it wouldn't work because you have to have that redirect going for at least one or two PR updates. I actually wouldn't use one month as a rule of thumb.
This can be done to any domain, not just new ones, though.
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Luca Brasi
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
# Posts: 127
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Posted: 06/11/2004 01:28 am
a good idea is to search for the domain name in this fashion:
"+www.suspiciouswebsite.+com" -site:www.suspiciouswebsite.com
if there are few results it is a bogus website.
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Webmaster-Toolkit.com
Joined: Jul 18, 2002
# Posts: 1098
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Posted: 06/11/2004 03:30 am
I've also seen people selling domain names with high PR using this method of faking PR
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jaanis
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
# Posts: 5
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Posted: 06/11/2004 10:37 pm
I am sorry, but I stop "trying" to purchase PR a while ago when Google stop assigning value to your site from others with "fake" or "real" PR. One thing is for sure when I was buying it, the first I checked was back links from the directory to see how they established their high PR and from what sites. If you are blindly buying links from sites without doing your homework I don't feel one bit bad for the person who is duped.
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Rezac
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
# Posts: 811
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Posted: 06/12/2004 07:58 am
exactly.
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gotohollywood
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
# Posts: 167
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Posted: 06/12/2004 05:52 pm
people doing that kind business should get capital punishment!!!!
Look at this. I can make 9 fake sites point to yahoo. I get a PR 9
an then go selling 20 links outof each at 900 dollars a pop.
(that is the average rate for a link for a PR 9 site)
20 links* at 900 dollars each....1800 dollars * 9 sites...
that is 162,000 dollars in just ONE month of scamming people!!!
That is some good money!
People doing this should definitelly be punished to all extent of the law!!!
The sad thing is that there sare norules banning this, so just keep away from theese people
Always check the backlinks and where they are coming from!!
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Rezac
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
# Posts: 811
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Posted: 06/13/2004 05:19 pm
What law? And what would the crime be? Misleading, yes. Unethical SEO practices, yes.
All He has to say is, "I sold him a link from my website, nothing else."
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